Why not test more pro audio?

[restorer-john]

This is the kind of pro amp I would like to buy, Crown macro reference one amp. They don’t make them anymore unfortunately, but a few used ones are still out there.

An absolute beast of an amplifier.

 

[Ericglo]

I'll admit those aren't the cleanest measurements I took back then but it gives you a rough idea of the response and off axis behavior.

I have a JBL PRX415 I had picked up recently for a steal that I am going to measure soon (when I get a nice day to do so).

I tested a pair of entry level 8" PA speakers not too long ago, both are basically garbage quality:
https://www.mtg-designs.com/tips-tricks-tests/spa8pas-vs-spg88

Thanks for doing those tests.

I wonder if the Lynx cabinet could be used with better drivers. The waveguide/horn looks passable.

 

[mtg90]

I'm sure it could, the waveguide/horn is the standard 1-3/8 - 18 threads, the cabinet should fit many 8" stamped frame drivers. The other issue is figuring a way to drop the tuning from ~120hz to more usable frequency.

But I don't thinks it's worth messing with unless you are looking for a cheap plastic PA style cabinet to use, otherwise just build a normal box and start fresh with better drivers.

 

[tomtoo]

They do and they don't. No professional wanting an amplifier for high SPL continuous output, day after day in a hostile environment and being carted from one gig to another is going to care one iota for the tests that Amir does.

They have completely different requirements to home users and 'audiophiles'. The SINAD chart and short term power testing is about as useful to pros as a dog with no legs

At least you can see that the pest of power overrating also has hit the pro world.
But yes, its like testing the comfort on the highway for a pro off road vehicle.

 

[More Dynamics Please]

I'll admit those aren't the cleanest measurements I took back then but it gives you a rough idea of the response and off axis behavior.

I have a JBL PRX415 I had picked up recently for a steal that I am going to measure soon (when I get a nice day to do so).

I tested a pair of entry level 8" PA speakers not too long ago, both are basically garbage quality:
https://www.mtg-designs.com/tips-tricks-tests/spa8pas-vs-spg88

You had said after hearing a B215XL compared to other speakers at a get together and before you got one to test that you thought it was "really quite a performer for its price." Did you feel the same after your hands-on analysis? That seems to be the consensus opinion reached by most who've heard the B215XL and B212XL, not that they are great performing speakers but that they perform much better than their low price would indicate making them attractive to those on limited budgets.

 

[LTig]

How do you know?

They're preamps. They'll pass signal for whatever you put into them. Adding more test data to what we have would be fascinating.

I've seen the frequency response of a preamp or sound interface (sorry, can't remember) sporting "famous Neve preamp character" which showed enhanced treble around 10 kHz.

A few years ago I went on search for a pro preamp which is good enough for my RME ADI-2 PRO fs and found lots of mic preamps claiming specific sound characteristics (warmth, air, ...). So I visited our local pro dealer and the expert there literally said that most of those mic preamps are in fact sound processors - the RME's being notable exceptions (transparent). RME's offer was too expensive though having 4 channels where I need 2 only.

 

[Ricardus]

I've seen the frequency response of a preamp or sound interface (sorry, can't remember) sporting "famous Neve preamp character" which showed enhanced treble around 10 kHz.

A few years ago I went on search for a pro preamp which is good enough for my RME ADI-2 PRO fs and found lots of mic preamps claiming specific sound characteristics (warmth, air, ...). So I visited our local pro dealer and the expert there literally said that most of those mic preamps are in fact sound processors - the RME's being notable exceptions (transparent). RME's offer was too expensive though having 4 channels where I need 2 only.

Well the next tine you run into that guy in the pro audio shop, please ask him what he meant when he said they were sound processors.

I've literally built 30 channels of mic preamps in the last 3 years, and they are just preamps.

There is a trend with home recording now where companies are releasing things called Channel Strips where there is a mic preamp, EQ, and compressor all built into one unit, and they are ideal for the guy at home capturing one channel of audio at a time. I'm not interested in thes kinds of units since I build all of those devices separately as god intended.

 

[LTig]

Well the next tine you run into that guy in the pro audio shop, please ask him what he meant when he said they were sound processors.

I've literally built 30 channels of mic preamps in the last 3 years, and they are just preamps.

There is a trend with home recording now where companies are releasing things called Channel Strips where there is a mic preamp, EQ, and compressor all built into one unit, and they are ideal for the guy at home capturing one channel of audio at a time. I'm not interested in thes kinds of units since I build all of those devices separately as god intended.

This is what they had on stock from different companies and what he called sound processors.

 

[Willem]

And here for AP measurements of a now discontinued 2x350 watt Yamaha P3500s power amp: https://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum...mpli-yamaha-p3500s-mise-a-jour-t30056383.html I bought the 2x250 watt p2500s for 300 euros as a home audio power amp for my son and it sounds impeccable.
In essence, I think there is not necessarily an issue with electronics, but with PA speakers the requirements are sufficiently different to make comparisons pretty useless.

 

[Ricardus]

This is what they had on stock from different companies and what he called sound processors.

There doesn't seem to be a link there.

 

[dfuller]

This is what they had on stock from different companies and what he called sound processors.

To be clear, a good number of Neve-style preamps have an EQ as an integral part of the circuit - 1073s, 1084s, and 1081s all are combination mic preamp + EQ (inductor based active EQ).

But the eq can be hardware bypassed via a switch. You don't have to use it.

 

[Ricardus]

To be clear, a good number of Neve-style preamps have an EQ as an integral part of the circuit - 1073s, 1084s, and 1081s all are combination mic preamp + EQ (inductor based active EQ).

But the eq can be hardware bypassed via a switch. You don't have to use it.

This is a good point. I built 1073 clones that were without the EQ section and preamp only so my brain was stuck on preamps.

 

[mtg90]

You had said after hearing a B215XL compared to other speakers at a get together and before you got one to test that you thought it was "really quite a performer for its price." Did you feel the same after your hands-on analysis? That seems to be the consensus opinion reached by most who've heard the B215XL and B212XL, not that they are great performing speakers but that they perform much better than their low price would indicate making them attractive to those on limited budgets.

I'm going off memory from ~7 years ago when I tested them but my general feeling was they go loud and stay relatively clean while doing so. They are certainly not the most resolving or detailed speakers not even close but when someone want's a cinema like dynamic experience at home those Behringers can certainly deliver it and on normal avr power levels to boot. More conventional style speakers are often ~10dB less sensitive and just can't deliver that same dynamic experience either running into mechanical or thermal limits of the speakers drivers themselves or just as likely limits of the amplification. Then you get to the price which is very reasonable and puts them near the top of bang for buck when those performance metrics are a priority.

 

[More Dynamics Please]

I'm going off memory from ~7 years ago when I tested them but my general feeling was they go loud and stay relatively clean while doing so. They are certainly not the most resolving or detailed speakers not even close but when someone want's a cinema like dynamic experience at home those Behringers can certainly deliver it and on normal avr power levels to boot. More conventional style speakers are often ~10dB less sensitive and just can't deliver that same dynamic experience either running into mechanical or thermal limits of the speakers drivers themselves or just as likely limits of the amplification. Then you get to the price which is very reasonable and puts them near the top of bang for buck when those performance metrics are a priority.

Great perspective. As with most speakers they suit a specific set of personal preferences within a specific set of circumstances at a specific price point. Many speakers easily outperform the Behringers but can't match all the specifics required to become viable alternatives, especially as they relate to bang for the buck.

 

[Slayer]

They are certainly not the most resolving or detailed speakers not even close but when someone want's a cinema like dynamic experience at home those Behringers can certainly deliver it and on normal avr power levels to boot.

You make a good point here. A good majority of pro-audio speakers seem to lack in detail clarity. Almost all can be run with any home audio avr, however an external 250 watt+ amplifier is where they shine.
If one wants to go down this road, they should expect to spend somewhere in the neighborhood of $1,000 for a pair of PA speakers (and that's passive models, expect more for active) if they expect any audio quality. In my experience, EV, QSC and Yamaha are the ones to look at.
Most offerings that cost any less, (not all i'm sure) are not going to have much fidelity.
Now if you're willing to spend more, there are others who make quality PA speakers, but you're going to have to pony up double if not more than the asking's from the brands mentioned earlier.

 

[Chr1]

Exactly. And it's kinda weird that there's mucho respect for vintage PA ie JBL, Klipsch, Altec Tannoy etc... yet there are definitely modern equivalents that sound as good if not better. My mint V12s cost me £250 second hand and sound way better than the DMT studio monitors I used previously.
It's the "vintage" (fashion) hifi (snobbery) thing, I guess.
(modern second hand quality pa gear is awesome value btw)

 

[pseudoid]

They have completely different requirements to home users and 'audiophiles'. The SINAD chart and short term power testing is about as useful to pros as a dog with no legs

You are sooo correct, yet again! It is not just 'different' requirements from the measurements side but the hardware design is an overkill for the home user but audiophiles have always been into 'overkill' when it comes to specs and hardware. Yey!

 

[Chr1]

Hmm, not sure....
Reckon it's all about SPL myself...
At volume, for good sound quality, speakers in particular, get expensive.

Seems there's often similarities between manufacturers tasty megabucks Main Monitors and their quality PA. They are both hifi at big SPLs.

(Inwall, Infinite Baffle soffit mounting often optional/optomal)

 

[LTig]

There doesn't seem to be a link there.

The red This relates to the red part in your posting I've cited.