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Why not test more pro audio?

Ye
Ricardus said:
These were the ones we had. We had 4 of them in a smallish club, and I used to push them and they never sounded bad. When I first was asked to run sound there I brought some music with me that had really well recorded drums, and I listened to that, and I could feel the kick drum in my chest, and everything else sounded fine. I'd actually recommend these for basic live sound reinforcement.

www.sweetwater.com

Behringer Eurolive B115D 1000W 15 inch Powered Speaker

1,000W, 15" 2-way Active PA Speaker with Wireless Option and Integrated Mixer (each)
www.sweetwater.com www.sweetwater.com
Click to expand...

Apparently a lot of people on AVS like theirs.
 
As someone who's been in 'Pro Audio' all his working life, I'd like to ask what do you mean by 'Pro Audio'?
I suppose, it can be any equipment that someone earns their living from using/installing, as opposed to using at home for enjoyment.

However, that is such a wide category as to be, I suggest, pretty useless as a definition.
It can be anything from nasty little PA 'speakers used in clubs/pubs to Genelec Main monitors. It can be anything from a Vestax DJ turntable to an EMT 950. It can be anything from a nasty little 'DJ' mixer to an SSL console.

So which is it?

I would love to see reviews of what I call 'proper' Pro equipment like Studer or Ampex tape machines, Genelec and other Main Monitors, EMT and Gates turntables, Neumann cutting lathes and other such equipment, but I'm unlikely to be humoured.

S.
 
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More Dynamics Please said:
I've read many of the PA speaker reviews on production-partner.de and they do an excellent job of testing, lacking only the specific perspective of using the speakers for home audio....
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I'm not sure that is actually necessary - at least to me it isn't. I am rarely intrigued by anyones subjective impression as i see it valid for that specific equipment used and in that specific room. I must admit that i don't read Amir's subjective listening impression. The Panther is good enough for me and only if i see some mayhem in measurements and "good" panther, then i go and read. Out of curiosity, not out of desire to learn something.
 
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sergeauckland said:
I would love to see reviews of what I call 'proper' Pro equipment like Studer or Ampex tape machines, Genelec and other Main Monitors, EMT and Gates turntables, Neumann cutting lathes and other such equipment, but I'm unlikely to be humoured.
Click to expand...
Amir has tested some Genelecs. And testing tape machines seems a bit unlikely. I don't think I feel like shipping our 500 pound MCI machine to Amir. :)

But I agree. I said it in a previous post. I would like to see some proper gear tested. Some vintage Neve 1073s, and some newer SSL preamp designs.

We have an older Audio Precision we use to align our tape machines. When we do it I could give some basic info from those tests.
 
I would very much like to see those Behringers measured. I think they will have very poor directivity and serious comb filtering issues. The 15" is crossed at 2200hz, the 12" version is crossed at 2800hz, and the tweeter waveguide is quite large.
 
Ricardus said:
Amir has tested some Genelecs. And testing tape machines seems a bit unlikely. I don't think I feel like shipping our 500 pound MCI machine to Amir. :)

But I agree. I said it in a previous post. I would like to see some proper gear tested. Some vintage Neve 1073s, and some newer SSL preamp designs.

We have an older Audio Precision we use to align our tape machines. When we do it I could give some basic info from those tests.
Click to expand...
Indeed, and that's the problem. The Genelecs that have been tested are the small ones that can be shipped. Their main monitors are pretty unlikely. There are also a raft of home HiFi 'speakers of the size of the B&W 801s, KEF 105.2, Kef 107s etc etc that don't get reviewed as not easy to ship. Then there's a whole panoply of specialist audio equipment like IP codecs, digital mixers (production, recording and on-air), field recorders etc. etc. Sadly, nobody is reviewing those on a technical level, although there are some user reviews in magazines like SoS.

S.
 
Zvu said:
I'm not sure that is actually necessary - at least to me it isn't. I am rarely intrigued by anyones subjective impression as i see it valid for that specific equipment used and in that specific room. I must admit that i don't read Amir's subjective listening impression. The Panther is good enough for me and only if i see some mayhem in measurements and "good" panther, then i go and read. Out of curiosity, not out of desire to learn something.
Click to expand...

I feel the same way.

One of the things that pushed me away from home audio, and pulled me into proaudio, is proaudio's relative no nonsense approach to evaluating gear. (I swore off Absolute Sound, Stereophile, etc about 30 years ago....and don't want any of it back.)

For me, proaudio means live, theatre, installs, etc. Where gear is viewed more as a tool to accomplish a task....how well does it measure and meet the task at hand?

Studiophiles get uncomfortably similar to audiophiles (hey, i stayed PC.......didn't say phools Lol)


I would like to see more small self-powered speaker reviews, like the low cost Yamaha's mentioned; along with premium brands like Meyer, Alcons, etc..
Would also like to see install boxes from the likes of Fulcrum Acoustic, Danley, Renkus-Heinz , etc.

On the electronics front, I've thought about approaching Amir to see if he would have interest in measuring a X-32 rack. It makes a super I/O router, 32 Ch sound card, with a great deal of processing and filter functions. Incredible versatility and value imo.
Prosound mixers could solve a lot of home audio I/O difficulties. Prosound DSP offers a lot to home audio too ime..
 
Samps said:
I have no experience with audio manufacturers, but I do work with other vendors that are usually willing to cooperate if they can see a future sales potential.

This isn’t some small time YouTube channel reaching out for samples. I think this place is established enough for major manufacturers to trust with their gear. I guess the risk is that the results might not be great. On the flip side, some might turn out to be better than expected.

I do agree that individuals may be hesitant to give up their personal speakers for extended periods.
Click to expand...
I’m guessing the risk of being shot to pieces makes it a risky proposition - a lot of pro audio gear seems to operate off of the “good enough” mantra, which doesn’t necessarily lead to measurements impressive enough to cause sales - especially if they can already sustain themselves off of their reputation. I’d imagine that’s some of it.
 
FWIW I've sent Amir a small mixer with USB AD/DA. Anxiously awaiting the review! I don't anticipate it will measure anywhere near good standalone DACs, but it'll be interesting to find out.
 
Almost all of the love for the Behringer Eurolive PA speakers in home theater and audio use has been for the passive versions rather than the active ones.
 
gnarly said:
Studiophiles get uncomfortably similar to audiophiles (hey, i stayed PC.......didn't say phools Lol)
Click to expand...
Examples? I personally don't know one studio engineer who buys $3000 RCA cables or IEC cables, and elevates their speaker cables on little wooden risers. I've worked in 5 or 6 different studios, including one in the NY Metro area, and have never seen the voodoo nonsense beliefs in pro studio engineers that I see in online audiophiles.

I'm actually trying to think of the best example I can of audiophool nonsense in the people I have seen and who I know and I can't come up with anything at the moment. I do know one engineer who just HATES FM synthesis and would rather smash a DX7 than use it, though.
 
JWAmerica said:
I would very much like to see those Behringers measured. I think they will have very poor directivity and serious comb filtering issues. The 15" is crossed at 2200hz, the 12" version is crossed at 2800hz, and the tweeter waveguide is quite large.
Click to expand...
@mtg90 (Matt Grant of MTG Designs) who designs many of the DIYSG speaker kits measured passive Behringer B212XL and B215XL, analyzed the crossovers/drivers and posted disassembly images. His posts are scattered over the next few pages after the following initial post on AVS Forum:

 
Ricardus said:
Examples? I personally don't know one studio engineer who buys $3000 RCA cables or IEC cables, and elevates their speaker cables on little wooden risers. I've worked in 5 or 6 different studios, including one in the NY Metro area, and have never seen the voodoo nonsense beliefs in pro studio engineers that I see in online audiophiles.
Click to expand...
Professional studios for hire, turning out work ? Sure, I agree with you, they seem no nonsense (based on my limited experience).

I was referring to home studios...Gearslutz type shoppers.

Didn't mean to denigrate professional studios and engineers...
 
More Dynamics Please said:
@mtg90 (Matt Grant of MTG Designs) who designs many of the DIYSG speaker kits measured passive Behringer B212XL and B215XL, analyzed the crossovers/drivers and posted disassembly images. His posts are scattered over the next few pages after the following initial post on AVS Forum:

Click to expand...
I'll admit those aren't the cleanest measurements I took back then but it gives you a rough idea of the response and off axis behavior.

I have a JBL PRX415 I had picked up recently for a steal that I am going to measure soon (when I get a nice day to do so).

I tested a pair of entry level 8" PA speakers not too long ago, both are basically garbage quality:
https://www.mtg-designs.com/tips-tricks-tests/spa8pas-vs-spg88
 
gnarly said:
Professional studios for hire, turning out work ? Sure, I agree with you, they seem no nonsense (based on my limited experience).

I was referring to home studios...Gearslutz type shoppers.

Didn't mean to denigrate professional studios and engineers...
Click to expand...
Yeah, those guys do tend to use the same lingo about devices. The mids sound more OPEN with this discreet opamp and the mids are chocolatey.

I make jokes about home studio guys too. It's kinda elitist, but they'll live.
 
tomtoo said:
Pro amps are no problem to get tested, and if they get send in they get tested.
Click to expand...

They do and they don't. No professional wanting an amplifier for high SPL continuous output, day after day in a hostile environment and being carted from one gig to another is going to care one iota for the tests that Amir does.

They have completely different requirements to home users and 'audiophiles'. The SINAD chart and short term power testing is about as useful to pros as a dog with no legs
 
restorer-john said:
They do and they don't. No professional wanting an amplifier for high SPL continuous output, day after day in a hostile environment and being carted from one gig to another is going to care one iota for the tests that Amir does.

They have completely different requirements to home users and 'audiophiles'. The SINAD chart and short term power testing is about as useful to pros as a dog with no legs
Click to expand...

Very true!!!
This is the kind of pro amp I would like to buy, Crown macro reference one amp. They don’t make them anymore unfortunately, but a few used ones are still out there.

Crown Macro Reference power amplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 2: Measurements A full set of measurements of the Crown Macro Reference was made in its balanced mode, with selected measurements repeated for the unbalanced mode.
www.stereophile.com www.stereophile.com

8D1B73F1-D969-4530-8373-9B60AA3596C0.jpeg


D1A67CD7-EDAD-43F3-B7B8-F0C764B0DB30.jpeg
 
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