Why not review some Hegel amps?

[Ilkless]

When I expressed my displeasure on the deceptive marketing practices of Hegel it was to basically respond to the thread title. Personally, I have no interest or desire to see Hegel stuff measured when there’s other, more interesting companies Amir can spend his time on.

Besides, there already exists very detailed measurements. The amps aren’t anything special and would actually place on the low end of the list when stacked up against other amps Amir has already reviewed. And lest we forget, the absurd price tag of this thing. They’re going for $14,000 CAD last I checked, before the “standard” 1/3 dealer discount. To say nothing of the build quality of the units. I’m sure the Hegel amps are well made, made in China or not. Just don’t charge me an arm and a leg and pretend it’s manufactured in Norway when it’s not.

Here is the measurement from soundstage. Note how miserable the dac section measures: https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...ac&catid=97:amplifier-measurements&Itemid=154

I second this. Mucking about with expensive boutique mediocrity, without even the exquisite build quality and looks of say a Luxman or Accuphase is a waste of both Amir's time and an AP test cycle. It won't significantly sway the devoted userbase anyway, that buy into the minimalist-purist-Norwegian-boutique-amp cult of personality.

I have always believed that potential measurement candidates should be screened on a few factors:

- presence of at least indicative measurements of products from the manufacturer's line elsewhere to show the ballpark they are/were in - many Hegel tests scattered across different pubs already exist

- potential interest to users both ASR and beyond (ie. approximate sales volume, number of units in circulation, price) - not much new can be gleaned for Hegel that would be of interest given the above

- anything with price/performance that's obviously way out of line in a bad way (expensive stuff that even on a simple look does not justify its price in any way, based on inputs, build quality, functionality etc.) - most subjective but way too simple and nondescript for the prices they want and the performance established elsewhere.

For instance, I want to see more JRDG tested, the non-audio factors like build quality and looks are compelling enough for me to be curious about it. I'm not ashamed to say that I can appreciate the hobby beyond purely audio performance, and include other factors like backstory, aesthetics, ergonomics/industrial design and build. But Hegel simply does not seem remarkable enough in any of these ways to warrant being tested.

 

[GUTB]

I was really interest in the H590, apparently it's really top-notch. It would be very tempting if it could be had for a good deal or used price.

 

[steve59]

The appeal of the 590 say used prices is the sheer power for an integrated amp. Generally +300 wpc requires separates for us not convinced by class d. I have read Hegel support is suspect but mines been trouble free and thats better than needing a warranty.

 

[watchnerd]

The appeal of the 590 say used prices is the sheer power for an integrated amp. Generally +300 wpc requires separates for us not convinced by class d. I have read Hegel support is suspect but mines been trouble free and thats better than needing a warranty.

Okay...but who actually needs / can use 300 WPC and isn't running separates?

My speakers are pretty inefficient at 84 dB, and my integrated amp is rated for 400 WPC, but from what I can tell, rarely crank it above 10-50 WPC, steady state.

 

[steve59]

I sold my salon 2's because my h360 rated at 250/425 wpc couldn't get the woofers woofin! the salon 1 with the hegel was as good as I ever heard them, but when I made the jump to the 2's I was surprised. Now that doesn't guarantee the h590 with its 301 wpc could, sigh

 

[watchnerd]

I sold my salon 2's because my h360 rated at 250/425 wpc couldn't get the woofers woofin!

Doesn't dip much below 4 ohms, really.

Sensitivity: 86.4 dB SPL with 2.83 V

That's not an especially hard load, nor super low sensitivity.

As Stereophile says: "the Salon2 should not be hard for the partnering amplifier to drive"

Soundstage tested the H360 at:

• Output power at 1% THD+N: 231.1W @ 8 ohms, 468.3 @ 4 ohms

That's over 23 dB/W. Add that to the 86 dB sensitivity and you get 109 dB.

So what was the issue?

 

[direstraitsfan98]

Doesn't dip much below 4 ohms, really.

Sensitivity: 86.4 dB SPL with 2.83 V

That's not especially hard load, nor super low sensitivity.

As Stereophile says: "the Salon2 should not be hard for the partnering amplifier to drive"

Soundstage tested the H360 at:

• Output power at 1% THD+N: 231.1W @ 8 ohms, 468.3 @ 4 ohms

That's over 23 dB/W. Add that to the 86 dB sensitivity and you get 109 dB.

So what was the issue?

Just anecdotal but I have a friend with the same speakers I own, JBL 4367. They’re 94dB sensitive but when playing heavy bass electronic music for extended periods of time, he was able to get the partnering Benchmark ABH2 to hit its protection circuit. He told me it wasn’t often he played that loudly, but, when he did, it happened.

I think we often underestimate how much headroom we need. This is also highly dependent on the size and volume of the room as well. A large 20x30 space isn’t unheard of to be used with a speaker like the salon2. They’re advertised as full range and actually are full range. They’re also a 4 way design and no doubt waste a lot of incoming power, easy to drive or not. I’ve never seen a 4 way design that wasn’t absurdly inefficient and demanded more power then you would think.

 

[watchnerd]

Just anecdotal but I have a friend with the same speakers I own, JBL 4367. They’re 94dB sensitive but when playing heavy bass electronic music for extended periods of time, he was able to get the partnering Benchmark ABH2 to hit its protection circuit. He told me it wasn’t often he played that loudly, but, when he did, it happened.

I think we often underestimate how much headroom we need. .

With 94 dB sens speakers he hit the limits on an ABH2???!

I guess I just don't listen at dance club loudness like some people do.

My room is a fairly large spacial volume, especially due to high ceilings and open floor plan, but I don't listen louder than 85 dBA (average) at the listening position.

Plus -- I high pass the mains and use dual subs.

 

[steve59]

when the reviews compliment revel reviews are good but when they like another brand the science geeks don’t like they’re paid for fluff. Take my experience or leave i.

 

[watchnerd]

when the reviews compliment revel reviews are good but when they like another brand the science geeks don’t like they’re paid for fluff. Take my experience or leave i.

Oh, this place definitely has a pro-Revel bias, no doubt.

But I thought this thread was about amps, not speakers?

 

[ahofer]

Just anecdotal but I have a friend with the same speakers I own, JBL 4367. They’re 94dB sensitive but when playing heavy bass electronic music for extended periods of time, he was able to get the partnering Benchmark ABH2 to hit its protection circuit. He told me it wasn’t often he played that loudly, but, when he did, it happened.

I think we often underestimate how much headroom we need. This is also highly dependent on the size and volume of the room as well. A large 20x30 space isn’t unheard of to be used with a speaker like the salon2. They’re advertised as full range and actually are full range. They’re also a 4 way design and no doubt waste a lot of incoming power, easy to drive or not. I’ve never seen a 4 way design that wasn’t absurdly inefficient and demanded more power then you would think.

This video is an interesting illustration of peak power. 84db sensitivity, biggish room, electronic music, 600 watts at peaks. I think the choice of program material is also an issue.

 

[watchnerd]

This video is an interesting illustration of peak power. 84db sensitivity, biggish room, electronic music, 600 watts at peaks. I think the choice of program material is also an issue.

I think this is more of a commentary on how much juice you need with low sensitivity speakers more than anything.

If they did the same thing with 96 dB speakers they could use <50 watts.

But power is cheap now.

 

[Geert]

Just anecdotal but I have a friend with the same speakers I own, JBL 4367. They’re 94dB sensitive but when playing heavy bass electronic music for extended periods of time, he was able to get the partnering Benchmark ABH2 to hit its protection circuit. He told me it wasn’t often he played that loudly, but, when he did, it happened.

I think we often underestimate how much headroom we need.

Most people don't realise the cooling of a lot of hifi amplifiers isn't designed for sustained high power levels. The abundant power capacity is there to handle peaks (and for marketing).

A big difference with professional PA amplifiers, which can run full power (even clipping) for hours.

 

[steve59]

My kef r105/3 were Rated 93.5 1 meter into 1 watt and I would biamp with a b&k 4420 for the bass and a krell kav 300il on top and both those units were getting returned under warranty from being over driven. The hegel at least has thermal protection built in.

 

[watchnerd]

My kef r105/3 were Rated 93.5 1 meter into 1 watt and I would biamp with a b&k 4420 for the bass and a krell kav 300il on top and both those units were getting returned under warranty from being over driven. The hegel at least has thermal protection built in.

Holy smokes.

How loud do you listen?

 

[luknap]

As a Hegel H190 amp user I would love to read a detailed review and measurements of Hegel amp here. I bought my amp for less then 2500 euro and I don't find it extremely expensive regarding the fact that it has quite powerful amplification, decent dac and simple yet functional streamer. And I like the sound it produces with KEF LS50 speakers.

 

[Objectivist01]

Aha! So that's how it works. I guess the manufacturers don't want the bad news either. Thanks for the heads up.

Buy , measure , return if it measures bad. Think thats a good reason to return.

 

[amper42]

As a Hegel H190 amp user I would love to read a detailed review and measurements of Hegel amp here. I bought my amp for less then 2500 euro and I don't find it extremely expensive regarding the fact that it has quite powerful amplification, decent dac and simple yet functional streamer. And I like the sound it produces with KEF LS50 speakers.

I love the sound of my Hegel integrated amp attached to my BMR's. I don't need a testing certificate to tell me I love the SQ more than any of the other receivers and separates I have. The one weak point I see is it's Airplay/wireless connectivity. I use the USB port via the computer instead. It configures the Hegel as a sound card for the MacBook Pro. Awesome!

 

[Jukebox]

An interesting video showing the Hegel R&D offices, museum and demo room.

 

[Digi]

Hello, Has any testing on Hegel H390 and H590 Integrated amplifiers been done and can the results be shared. Thanks.