Why not review some Hegel amps?

[steve59]

Expensive compared to what? If you compare hegel to the competition, T&A, Chord, Mark Levinson, Krell, etc Hegel is probably the most affordable of the bunch. If you are comparing to class d amps you might as well be comparing a honda fit to a luxury car. Sometimes this forum tries to fit square pegs into round holes and blames the manufacturer when it doesn't fit.

 

[Geert]

Expensive compared to what? If you compare hegel to the competition, T&A, Chord, Mark Levinson, Krell, etc Hegel is probably the most affordable of the bunch.

When it comes to build quality, compared to whatever cheapest Chinese build. When it comes to that there's no comparison with the other brands you mentioned, they're in another league. Also SINAD is not impressive. So that only leaves their Soundengine technology you're paying for, which is a subjective matter. But if you like it, totally fine by me.

 

[phion]

When it comes to build quality, compared to whatever cheapest Chinese build. When it comes to that there's no comparison with the other brands you mentioned, they're in another league. Also SINAD is not impressive. So that only leaves their Soundengine technology you're paying for, which is a subjective matter. But if you like it, totally fine by me.

Just curious what would be your pick if you wanted to get a clean sound with say about 200w into 4ohms? maybe I should look into swapping mine with that

Also IIANM hegel’s SINAD numbers are based on third party measurements. Do we expect these to change if/when Amir et al. review them?

 

[Geert]

I can tell you what I have, a Cambridge Audio Edge A. Also build quality on another level, and SINAD in the top performers group (below all the Purify/Ncore class D assemblings). Not saying someone else should buy it, everyone is free to make their own choices.

We'll soon find out how Hegel measures. There's one its way to Amirm.

 

[phion]

I can tell you what I have, a Cambridge Audio Edge A. Also build quality on another level, and SINAD in the top performers group (below all the Purify/Ncore class D assemblings). Not saying someone else should buy it, everyone is free to make their own choices.

We'll soon find out how Hegel measures. There's one its way to Amirm.

Thanks. $6000 is more expensive than most Hegels though, no? Also, I just checked it in the SINAD spreadsheet and followed to the stereophile review link which it's based on, but I am not sure how the reported SINAD number is estimated. In that website, I see that THD alone (not THD + noise) at 5W/4ohm is about 0.0028% which would correspond to 91dB even if there was no noise at all.

https://www.stereophile.com/images/119CamEdgefig05.jpg

I couldn't find a THD+N vs power in the linked review, so how is this 95dB SINAD estimated for this amp?

link to the full review: https://www.stereophile.com/content/cambridge-audio-edge-integrated-amplifier-measurements

 

[Geert]

It wasn't that more expensive than an Hegel h190 when released.

 

[steve59]

I think the h190 was $4k retail when new. The H360 was $5700 retail. I demoed Cambridge audio...Azur something I think the price was comparable to the H180(replaced by the 190) as you say value is in the eye of the individual consumer and their specific goals. What justifies all the amps/int’s that cost more than the cheapest class d isn’t likely to be on the spec sheet but more how they interact with the speakers they’re driving.

A positive review would surprise me as it would confuse the sites platform. I have fun here but also am aware why we are here and try to have fun without offending anyone.

 

[MaxBuck]

Expensive compared to what? If you compare hegel to the competition, T&A, Chord, Mark Levinson, Krell, etc Hegel is probably the most affordable of the bunch. If you are comparing to class d amps you might as well be comparing a honda fit to a luxury car. Sometimes this forum tries to fit square pegs into round holes and blames the manufacturer when it doesn't fit.

The purpose of amplification is to power speakers. ML and Krell make some fine gear, but it doesn't send substantially purer signal than the good Class D amps that have been reviewed here.

Chord, Hegel, T&A all strike me as triumphs of marketing over substance. I think the measurements largely support my view.

 

[steve59]

Hi Max, I would like to know what different amps and speakers you have demoed and even cross demoed listening vs going by what you read? The argument is older than I am and I so wanted it to be true, but the fact is the system I assembled by my trust in science sounded awful. Why wouldn’t I want a $1200 integrated to sound great? Anybody who earns a living with their hands and their back appreciates the value of a dollar.

It’s hard to imagine anyone thats actually heard a great sounding system say what you’re saying.

 

[Geert]

The KEF Blade measures pretty good

 

[phion]

The purpose of amplification is to power speakers. ML and Krell make some fine gear, but it doesn't send substantially purer signal than the good Class D amps that have been reviewed here.

Chord, Hegel, T&A all strike me as triumphs of marketing over substance. I think the measurements largely support my view.

aren't good class D amp modules fairly new? I don't have a bias either-way and looked at a few class D amps when I was making my purchase, in particular PeachTree Nova and NAD. The former seemed to have worse measurements than Hegel, and NAD seemed to be more expensive overall.

 

[MaxBuck]

Hi Max, I would like to know what different amps and speakers you have demoed and even cross demoed listening vs going by what you read? The argument is older than I am and I so wanted it to be true, but the fact is the system I assembled by my trust in science sounded awful. Why wouldn’t I want a $1200 integrated to sound great? Anybody who earns a living with their hands and their back appreciates the value of a dollar.

It’s hard to imagine anyone thats actually heard a great sounding system say what you’re saying.

Sorry you're having trouble imagining it. But it is what it is.

I've heard some impressive audio reproduction systems, including rigs costing into six figures. None has sounded better, to my ears, than the system I now own.

 

[steve59]

now i understand why spending more seems silly to you. if i heard no difference i wouldn't see the point in spending more either. Glad we agree.

 

[steve59]

The KEF Blade measures pretty good

I wasn't suggesting measurements meant nothing, just that component matching by ear is critical for serious listeners.

 

[MaxBuck]

now i understand why spending more seems silly to you. if i heard no difference i wouldn't see the point in spending more either. Glad we agree.

It's not a matter of spending more on that equipment. It's a matter of the sound reproduction fidelity being no better, and in most cases measurably worse.

If you think Purifi or Hypex amplifiers "don't sound good," you're either a victim of perceptual bias or listening to poor source material wherein you want poor fidelity in playback to mask objectionable sounds that the engineer allowed in.

 

[MaxBuck]

I wasn't suggesting measurements meant nothing, just that component matching by ear is critical for serious listeners.

I agree insofar as ensuring that the amplifier doesn't clip when driving your speakers to the desired listening levels. Otherwise hogwash. I'd challenge anyone to find a speaker that properly sized Hypex amps won't drive beautifully.

 

[BDWoody]

I wasn't suggesting measurements meant nothing, just that component matching by ear is critical for serious listeners.

Or, at least those who take themselves very seriously.

Speakers and other transducers? Sure...

Solid state gear with known and complete specs? What's there to listen for, beyond something clearly being broken? There is nothing mysterious hiding in there.

 

[steve59]

Absolutely, I don’t have an engineering degree so when the specs lined up said my 200/375 wpc amp was plenty to drive the salon2’s I believed them and when I upgraded to a parasound A21 with even more power it still wasn’t enough. If you’re calling me a liar I can only say the speakers and 2 of the amps are gone so I can’t invite you over to prove it. Complex speakers with huge xovers and low sensitivity, hope I said that right, speakers that can dip below 2 ohms at some fq’s will sound different depending on the amp, I can’t even guess why you would question it.