Why most users here HATE all very expensive speakers?

[DMill]

I don’t hate them. I’d rather buy a boat if I want a money pit though.

My 2 cents is if you like em and have the cash, go for it. I have friends who will spend $800 on a golf club and they still suck at golf. Speakers are furniture, so it’s not unreasonable to want something that looks impressive. My only quibble with the OP post is that I’d damn sure want them to measure as good as they look. Any manufacturer of 5-digit costing speakers owes it to their buyers to provide honest specs. Or else this “passion” we have will continue to be snake oil used car salesman looking to make a buck on people who don’t know better.

 

[Oddball]

This thread made me look at the pro (L-acoustics, Meyer, Jbl) systems. Most of them seem to be aiming for 45hz to 20khz, +- 4dB. 120 slot plus headroom. With prices being around $80k for a pair. I didn’t see distortion spec.

The low end being set to 45hz across a number of brands intrigues me as even though I play a five string bass with B0, I’m pretty convinced I’m getting most of that deep sound from a missing fundamental effect. I generally have been high passing the really low end and if anything it sounds deeper and cleaner.

Not sure what you're actually after? Around $80K a pair you could have great LR to go to close to 120db, and 20 subs that would probably go to 160dB 20hz plus headroom? In other words, death my subs if that is your desire.

 

[Audionaut]

Let's make it reasonable, 3% for both, down to at least 30Hz.

It’s not primarily a pricing question, but a displacement question. If a single 12" driver can produce 96 dB at 30 Hz at the target distortion level, then reaching 120 dB under the same distortion limit requires roughly 16 times more cone area and clean air displacement.

In practical terms, that means about sixteen comparable 12" drivers, or roughly seven to eight 18" drivers, depending on their actual Sd and linear excursion.

So this is usually not just a more expensive version of the same loudspeaker. It becomes a fundamentally larger system, with much more cone area and displacement capacity.

The midrange and high frequencies can largely be ignored in this particular calculation, since sufficiently powerful and low-distortion drivers are readily available for those ranges.

To put that into perspective: seven to eight 18-inch drivers per side already means loudspeakers of physically enormous proportions — at that point, you’re no longer talking about conventional home audio, but something much closer to a serious cinema or professional sound reinforcement system.

 

[SnakeLord]

At the same time, actual listening tests (which could put these measurements into a more meaningful context) are often avoided or dismissed.


Best regards
Thomas

This is exactly what the audiophile industry is relying on and im sure you arnt that naive not to know it.

There are people around buying for couple of 1000$ power cables after they have listened to it. As you see, listening to audio gear will not bring you anywhere if it comes down to sane, rational and objective decisions. You simply cannot objectivly judge by your hearing how well the device is performing and if it is worth the price you are being asked to pay.

Huge part of the audio industry has been abusing this type of behavior in their favor for too long, basically scamming and fooling their customers with all the snake oil claims while asking for more and more $$$ for all kind of nonsense like floor spacers, all type of audiophile cables, shock resistor feets and so on, the list is infinite and absurd.

I would say for the most part the ASR community is just after the best bank for the buck after going down some sort of audiophile rabbit whole. The audiophile market is just oversaturated with too many brands and people constantly fighting with all the dirty tricks for their piece of cacke.

Personally i dont mind having long lasting, well measuring, quality built costly products.

 

[Sokel]

It’s not primarily a pricing question, but a displacement question. If a single 12" driver can produce 96 dB at 30 Hz at the target distortion level, then reaching 120 dB under the same distortion limit requires roughly 16 times more cone area and clean air displacement.

In practical terms, that means about sixteen comparable 12" drivers, or roughly seven to eight 18" drivers, depending on their actual Sd and linear excursion.

So this is usually not just a more expensive version of the same loudspeaker. It becomes a fundamentally larger system, with much more cone area and displacement capacity.

The midrange and high frequencies can largely be ignored in this particular calculation, since sufficiently powerful and low-distortion drivers are readily available for those ranges.

To put that into perspective: seven to eight 18-inch drivers per side already means loudspeakers of physically enormous proportions — at that point, you’re no longer talking about conventional home audio, but something much closer to a serious cinema or professional sound reinforcement system.

Genelec claims 126dB at <10% THD for under 200Hz and <3% THD for over that for 8381A, I expect it would be less for the bigger, indented to soffit mount mains monitors.
That's good index.

 

[Audionaut]

you could have great LR to go to close to 120db, and 20 subs that would probably go to 160dB 20hz plus headroom?

160 dB at normal listening distances is essentially unrealistic. Even directly at the barricade of very loud metal concerts, peak levels are typically somewhere around 120–130 dB, which is already extreme enough to damage hearing.

At 160 dB, you’re moving into territory associated with explosions, firearm muzzle blasts, or standing very close to a rocket launch. For reference, something like a Saturn V or Space Launch System can exceed that level, but only if you’re dangerously close — not hundreds of meters away where spectators typically are, but much closer to the launch pad infrastructure.

At that point I’d be less concerned about speaker or subwoofer pricing and more about surviving the listening session.

 

[Oddball]

Genelec claims 126dB at <10% THD for under 200Hz and <3% THD for over that for 8381A, I expect it would be less for the bigger, indented to soffit mount mains monitors.
That's good index.

Sorry but would not want to even hear 10% distortion under 200hz. This makes it virtually unusable in that range and that SPL. Civil distortion is probably as you noted - 3% in say 100hz range. Below that it just depends what you can hear. More subs will just lower your distortion floor and increase your SPL.

 

[Oddball]

160 dB at normal listening distances is essentially unrealistic. Even directly at the barricade of very loud metal concerts, peak levels are typically somewhere around 120–130 dB, which is already extreme enough to damage hearing.

At 160 dB, you’re moving into territory associated with explosions, firearm muzzle blasts, or standing very close to a rocket launch. For reference, something like a Saturn V or Space Launch System can exceed that level, but only if you’re dangerously close — not hundreds of meters away where spectators typically are, but much closer to the launch pad infrastructure.

At that point I’d be less concerned about speaker or subwoofer pricing and more about surviving the listening session.

I think I was clear in my post - death by subwoofers. The ultimate death any basshead would eventually strive for?

 

[Audionaut]

I think I was clear in my post - death by subwoofers. The ultimate death any basshead would eventually strive for?

I admit I’ve never given it any thought. It probably isn’t a pleasant way to die—at least not in my mind—if such a thing is even possible.

 

[MattHooper]

I do find a certain insidious quality to the top pricing in high end audio - an almost “ dare you to believe it” or “ dare any other companies to top our price” race to the top.
And the way it functions as a sort of moving of the Overton financial window, getting you used to these type of prices to make lower, but still extra extravagant pricing look “ more reasonable.”

 

[Sokel]

Sorry but would not want to even hear 10% distortion under 200hz. This makes it virtually unusable in that range and that SPL. Civil distortion is probably as you noted - 3% in say 100hz range. Below that it just depends what you can hear. More subs will just lower your distortion floor and increase your SPL.

The way I see it, people that make subs don't care about distortion.
Look at the figures at 95dB SPL here for example:

I measured 10 subwoofers.

Hi, it's been a while! I would like to thank the people who made this project possible on a scale never before imagined in South Korea. I measured a total of 10 subwoofers, including my own DIY subwoofer(L26RO4Y), and measured them to the CEA-2010 standard using a Klippel TBM module. Below are...

www.audiosciencereview.com

At 120dB some of them would probably self-destruct with anything lower than 40-50Hz, or even higher.
Subs are about output, not low distortion.
Of course lots of them will help reduce it, but some of them are already high even at 85dB SPL near 30Hz.

 

[Ropeburn]

I think I was clear in my post - death by subwoofers. The ultimate death any basshead would eventually strive for?

The basshead equivalent to death by snu snu

 

[Oddball]

The way I see it, people that make subs don't care about distortion.
Look at the figures at 95dB SPL here for example:

I measured 10 subwoofers.

Hi, it's been a while! I would like to thank the people who made this project possible on a scale never before imagined in South Korea. I measured a total of 10 subwoofers, including my own DIY subwoofer(L26RO4Y), and measured them to the CEA-2010 standard using a Klippel TBM module. Below are...

www.audiosciencereview.com

At 120dB some of them would probably self-destruct with anything lower than 40-50Hz, or even higher.
Subs are about output, not low distortion.
Of course lots of them will help reduce it, but some of them are already high even at 85dB SPL near 30Hz.

Sorry that I will not be posting more links, but getting late here. My subs go to about 105dB at 25h. So 4 of them really nail this down and can do a great job to 120dB. They can go further, and max out at about 130dB, but then the level of sound is so immense that you can't really hear any nuances. Sounds real and life threatening though.

There is a thing with (medium sized) ported subs that they will start distorting like crazy approaching 20hz. Look at the SVS PB 4000 plots on Audioholics. With several subs you can keep distortion in 150-30hz range to 5% at very high SPL, but then is all kind of falls apart around 25hz. For me, that is a good sign that these subs are no good for the infrasonics. There are plenty of beasts with 21 or 24" drivers and enormous box enclosures to cater to the people wanting to go below the "normal" range.

As usual, you just need to pick your poison.

 

[Oddball]

The basshead equivalent to death by snu snu

There are better alternatives though. Even as basshead, I do prefer what the mighty and smart dwarf mentioned multiple times in GOT .

 

[ivayvr]

I don't know if anybody said this before, but it could be that the problem is with the owners or how we perceive them, not the super expensive speakers. If your CEO earns your annual salary by noon of January 2nd, you are not necessarily too happy about it. Especially if your salary is not even following inflation. I am also aware that the question "Why you are not a CEO" also valid. To make things even more confusing, some (most?) of them make decisions with disastrous results and still get a golden parachute.

 

[MarkS]

Let's assume we have an active speaker with good measurements, short of full range with overall low distortion at 96dB SPL. Now, we want to have identical performance but at 120dB SPL.

You will only need it for a half-hour or so, then you will be deaf.

So look to rent, not buy

 

[Sokel]

You will only need it for a half-hour or so, then you will be deaf.

So look to rent, not buy

I don't think I'll ever listen to one at one meter

But at four meters, comfortable in my couch, watching two 300 liter boxes inside a wall... that I can do

 

[JeffS7444]

Lest it be forgotten, achieving the highest possible fidelity to the recording is pretty easy and affordable these days with headphones or nearfield setups. Where stuff may get expensive is if you need high SPLs, have a large space to fill, or wish to reproduce the lowest frequencies.

But even a rotary subwoofer is within reach of mere mortals, but whether one's room can handle it is another matter! This person built one using parts from an old subwoofer, an electric motor, and a home-made, variable-pitch fan. It's really kind of ingenious.

 

[IPunchCholla]

Not sure what you're actually after? Around $80K a pair you could have great LR to go to close to 120db, and 20 subs that would probably go to 160dB 20hz plus headroom? In other words, death my subs if that is your desire.

I'm not after anything. I was just curious what was available from brands that are actually competing in this market at the professional level. Looks like a top of the line setup for studio mains is about 1/10th the price of the Wilsons. Then I got curious as to why almost all of them (with subs included) are only aiming for 45Hz on the low end. I find my $600 speakers and sub totally adequate to my use case (mostly near field monitoring and small room listening).

 

[RexrothPigeon]

Iirc, Japan was settled from today's Korea, so that's not surprising. They share ethno-cultural origins and it seems to show.

it turns out that you do not rc

the best current understanding is that the islands that now form japan were settled at least in part by people from the mainland, probably via the peninsula that is now korea, but this divergence occurred 30,000 years ago, long before any of this allegedly shared "culture" formed.

It's wise to skip this kind of off-the cuff theorizing about a subject that is deeply contentious among people of both countries, one of which brutally colonized the other less than 100 years ago (after many centuries of military attacks and other crimes). And finally, cultural essentialism hasn't been acceptable in sociology, anthropology, or philosophy for 30-60 years.