Why Levinson 333 sounds brighter than Krell KSA200s on the same speaker?

[MasterApex]

I have no idea what you mean by tonal balance for example. What's your baseline? Which one is more accurate? I'd still start with a better comparison method rather than trying to explain mere "differences".

I made an assumption that it is tribal knowledge that AMP can sound different on the same set of speaker.
I observed the difference and was looking for AMP technical spec that may explain it.
Sorry I can't explain more than what I stated previously.
KSA-200s sounds darker than 333 , as if the there was graphic equalizer (or treble setting) that decreased certain frequencies loudness. Is all I can describe.

 

[Chrispy]

I made an assumption that it is tribal knowledge that AMP can sound different on the same set of speaker.
I observed the difference and was looking for AMP technical spec that may explain it.
Sorry I can't explain more than what I stated previously.
KSA-200s sounds darker than 333 , as if the there was graphic equalizer (or treble setting) that decreased certain frequencies loudness. Is all I can describe.

I've not had that experience particularly with ss amps myself nor do I think it's worth much time pursuing. Do either sound bad? Is there a particular reason to pick one as a "winner" or "better"? I'd like to see both yours measured, tho.

 

[MasterApex]

I've not had that experience particularly with ss amps myself nor do I think it's worth much time pursuing. Do either sound bad? Is there a particular reason to pick one as a "winner" or "better"?

They both sound good in their own way. I was not trying to judge which is better.
I was simply trying to understand why they sound different
Brighter is just my description, it does not mean better or worse.

 

[Chrispy]

They both sound good in their own way. I was not trying to judge which is better.
I was simply trying to understand why they sound different
Brighter is just my description, it does not mean better or worse.

Could still be slight differences in level.....hard to know. Curious how did the pursuit of the difference come about?

 

[mallikreddyk]

I made an assumption that it is tribal knowledge that AMP can sound different on the same set of speaker.
I observed the difference and was looking for AMP technical spec that may explain it.
Sorry I can't explain more than what I stated previously.
KSA-200s sounds darker than 333 , as if the there was graphic equalizer (or treble setting) that decreased certain frequencies loudness. Is all I can describe.

Amps in general are linear, but they sound different.
THD, SNR,IMD are the generally measured values that have an implication on sound Quality and perception. There are more factors as well like Damping Factor, SlewRate, TIM, phase , interaction with capacitance and inductance of speaker and crossover, etc.

 

[KSTR]

Level matching to absolute precision is tricky... and bound to fail whenever there is any minor frequency response difference, from finite output impedance reacting with speaker impedance. Sometimes level is even itself level dependant

A way to test in this case is at first try to get a good reasonable level match, say with the 1kHz test tone measured at the speaker terminals (not the amp output terminals). From there, make a series of tests with 0.2dB (2%) level changes (2% deviation steps should be possible to dial in and monitor on the voltmeter). If the sound change is real, it will typically remain persistent over a +-1dB range of level mismatch -- when it is different in character than the effect of a simple level mismatch.

FWIW, I'm familiar with KSA-200S (was used in my then day job at a speaker manufacturer) and also always had the impression that this is not a bright sounding amp, compared to everything else we had.

 

[MasterApex]

FWIW, I'm familiar with KSA-200S (was used in my then day job at a speaker manufacturer) and also always had the impression that this is not a bright sounding amp, compared to everything else we had.

Thank You for confirming our observation.

I came here searching for the community knowledge that may explain why that is.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Thank You for confirming our observation.

I came here searching for the community knowledge that may explain why that is.

I also have heard the KSA, and my sighted impression was it sounds a bit less bright or a bit dark versus other good amps. Sighted impressions are iffy however. I didn't own the amp so never had the chance to determine why it seemed different.

You could do some level checks at moderate volume. Measure voltage at the speaker terminals. Check 50 hz, 200 hz, 1khz, 5 khz, 10 khz and 15 khz. See if there is some trend on either low end or high end of the frequency range between the amps.

Even then, the most likely explanation until you match levels better is the difference you heard was caused by a very small level mismatch. The reason a few of us keep saying this is having been there and done that. No matter how real a little difference seems, if you are careful about level matching you often find that difference suddenly has disappeared. But some spot checks on frequency might turn up something.

 

[Spkrdctr]

You do not have to level match at all. It is a waste of time. If you did the test with your friends and you all knew which amp was which and you asked them, "Hey does this amp sound brighter than the other one"? Then you will get three votes for brighter. Remember if your brain is aware of the test and what you are looking for in a product, you are wasting your time. The brain is so easily fooled. I can set up a few speakers in a 5.1 system and have you believe a train sound is coming towards you from the back of your couch if your eyes were closed. See? Easy peasy. You must do a blind study to determine audio differences unless the difference is quite large.

 

[GXAlan]

@polmuaddib
In car audio, you can increase subjective bass by adding harmonic distortion to the bass. It is possible that the subjective experience or more bass can be detected in the harmonic distortion with a sweep from 10-100Hz instead of 20Hz-20kHz and comparing your two amplifiers.

DSP Sound Effects (SFX)

www.audiotec-fischer.de

SubXpander​

The SubXpander is a sound effect that generates additional subharmonic tones with half the frequency and adds them to the music signal. Only the frequency range from 30 - 100 Hz is taken into account.
Here is a small example: If there is a 40 Hz tone in the music signal, a 20 Hz tone will be added. With a 60 Hz tone this would be a 30 Hz tone accordingly.

The frequency spectrum of the generated subharmonics thus covers the range from 15 Hz - 50 Hz.

 

[polmuaddib]

@polmuaddib
In car audio, you can increase subjective bass by adding harmonic distortion to the bass. It is possible that the subjective experience or more bass can be detected in the harmonic distortion with a sweep from 10-100Hz instead of 20Hz-20kHz and comparing your two amplifiers.

DSP Sound Effects (SFX)

www.audiotec-fischer.de

SubXpander​

The SubXpander is a sound effect that generates additional subharmonic tones with half the frequency and adds them to the music signal. Only the frequency range from 30 - 100 Hz is taken into account.
Here is a small example: If there is a 40 Hz tone in the music signal, a 20 Hz tone will be added. With a 60 Hz tone this would be a 30 Hz tone accordingly.

The frequency spectrum of the generated subharmonics thus covers the range from 15 Hz - 50 Hz.

There is a difference in distortion levels. Didn't think about that. Would it be audible, though?