Why Is Hi-Fi Gear So Darn Expensive?!

[delta76]

Ah, the absolute sound, the advocate for $ million equipment. Just like "wedding" triples or quadruples prices of things associated with it, "audiophile" does the same with very little to no sound quality improvement

 

[Spkrdctr]

Since we are on the topic. Years ago the "new" idea was a second subwoofer. This went on for a few quite a few years and then it changed to what you really need is 4 subwoofers. So, I have seen a newbie asking questions on other sites and the answer is basically you need 4 subwoofers (on other sites) to really have good sound. The problem is that most of the posters probably only have one sub! The internet parrots so much BS that it makes it to expensive for people to dip their toe in to see what they like. Internet recommendations are most time useless. We can at times be our own worst enemy in supporting the hobby. This is why I like Amir's reviews of the lower end inexpensive speakers. For example anyone can go buy an inexpensive AVR from Yamaha with some decent ASR approved speakers and have a fantastic sounding low end system. Then later on in life they can get the upgrade bug and spend some serious mega bucks. Not too many people start at the upper mid-fi $5000 to $7000 level. This is especially important with subs. Many people want to "try" one without too much money involved. An under $1000 sub such as an SVS 1000 is a great starter sub. Then later they can splurge on a room wrecking 4000 or 16 series sub.

I like it around here (ASR) as I have gotten some nice inexpensive recommendations from our members and tried out a few different things. Good sound does not need to be expensive at all.

 

[kongwee]

In the 1980s magazine editorials were always banging on about the 'hobby dying' and here we are almost 40 years later and there's still a hobby.

Back then the market was pretty much solely Western Europe and North America. Communism and universal poverty almost everywhere else. Not the case any more. I suspect China alone now has more enthusiasts than there were in the 1970s in the whole of Europe.

I don't see prices coming down, but give it a couple of years for the supply chain issues to get sorted and I suspect they will stabilise.

I still see hi fi as a niche market. These hifi company just survive on new developing cities around the world. When I was in hifi 12 years ago, I had $5000 speaker. nowadays, it will cost my $12k to get the same brand the same tier speaker, the same made in US. The brand as I see still getting bigger, but cost is no going down. Like many brand, it developed the high end side later have to sell mass produced. Like Revel, JBL, Focal......etc You know their real stuff are the top two category. But they have to expand their business to sell much lower end stuffs. Or just end up like Wilson Audio, just get more expensive.

 

[fpitas]

Honestly, the truth about prices has been staring us in the face. The best snake oil is only obtained from audiophile-bred snakes, a dying breed.

 

[Ralph_Cramden]

Well, too bad it's sold out, because I really, really NEED a $6,000 3.5Wpc SET amp from a web store that also sells sneakers and T-shirts!

Ojas 2A3 Single End Triode Power Amplifier

3.5 watts per channel into 8 ohms 10 Hz - 20 kHz +/- <1 dB 17.75” w x 10.25 d x 7” h 50 lb. The first Single Ended Triode amp I ever built was a 2A3. It seemed like a good entry into SET but I saw it as just that. In the years since I have built, owned and auditioned all of the popular output...

gallery.canary---yellow.com

 

[fpitas]

Well, too bad it's sold out, because I really, really NEED a $6,000 3.5Wpc SET amp from a web store that also sells sneakers and T-shirts!

Ojas 2A3 Single End Triode Power Amplifier

3.5 watts per channel into 8 ohms 10 Hz - 20 kHz +/- <1 dB 17.75” w x 10.25 d x 7” h 50 lb. The first Single Ended Triode amp I ever built was a 2A3. It seemed like a good entry into SET but I saw it as just that. In the years since I have built, owned and auditioned all of the popular output...

gallery.canary---yellow.com

It gets the mystical broad brush too, since he mentions Japan. That adds at least $2000.

 

[atmasphere]

Since we are on the topic. Years ago the "new" idea was a second subwoofer. This went on for a few quite a few years and then it changed to what you really need is 4 subwoofers. So, I have seen a newbie asking questions on other sites and the answer is basically you need 4 subwoofers (on other sites) to really have good sound. The problem is that most of the posters probably only have one sub!

Multiple subs are used to break up standing waves that can cause bass to be everywhere but the listening chair. With a single sub you really do have to place it properly in order for it to be heard at the listening position. Sometimes you can get away with it random luck; consider that at 80Hz the waveform is 14 feet long so it you can hear the one sub and its not in a really inconvenient position you're doing well.

Multiple subs are usually placed asymmetrically but they can, as a result, be a little bit more out of the way. I've really come to the conclusion that this is the way to go to get the bass right, and then you really don't need a massive speaker for the mains for the system to be quite convincing.

BTW Dr Floyd Toole of Harmon came up with this concept- it was unknown to audiophiles until Audiokinesis made a product called the Swarm that was intended for this purpose (Audiokinesis took the idea a step further by designing his subs to take advantage of Room Boundary Effect, allowing them to be smaller and placed directly against a wall). Even then its taken Duke (of Audiokinesis) 20 years to get traction with this idea. FWIW his subs are reasonably priced...

As a manufacturer I know one reason audio can be really expensive and that is if the product isn't mass produced and also if not made in China. In this country you have to pay a lot of overhead- getting good help is a problem unless you pay them and you pay 1/3rd more or so to the state for unemployment insurance; unless you are buying at 3rd column pricing things just work out expensive. Despite that the Veblen Effect is very real; people have asked me many times over the last 40 years what constitutes 'high end' audio so I've had a lot of time to think about it. My conclusion is high end audio is not driven by price, its driven by intention. If you know that you really can get great results for not a lot of money; for me Topping DACs are a good example of how that works.

This is not just an issue in audio BTW. If you are into bicycles you've probably heard of Campagnolo or Shimano; these companies price according to what the market will bear rather than to a formula. Back in the 1970s a little Japanese company called Sun Tour came up with a new derailluer idea that was vastly superior to anything Campagnolo made, but because it was priced to a formula it was mostly showing up on cheaper bicycle boom bikes of the time and never had the reputation of either of the other companies. But a guy named Frank Bertio built a machine so he could measure the shifting time and the amount of overshoot needed to reach the next gear, and showed how superior the Sun Tour product really was. Sound familiar?? It better....

 

[rwortman]

Multiple subs in small rooms (small with respect to wavelengths) are to even out the response throughout the room. If you listen by yourself in the stereo sweet spot, a single sub with proper EQ works fine.