• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously. We now measure and review equipment for free! Click here for details.

Why is audio so angry?

Joined
Apr 22, 2019
Messages
16
Likes
6
Location
Valley of the Sun
Sounds like Cosmik's signature line applies.
Digital audio is a rare example of a perfect technology. It has given audiophiles everything they want, and now they are bored.
Well, I can get pretty good results with a Sony Digital recorder and a couple of good mikes. A decent DAC is no problem, amps still seem to be a problem but my perspective may be a little different than audiophiles.
 

agtp

Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2018
Messages
79
Likes
39
Ok, this is not really a question. More of an assertion and a suggestion.

Listening to music is a hobby with very few table stakes. You are either happy or not happy with what you hear.

Some people are happy for weird reasons (let’s put that in the subjectivist bucket) and some people are happy for provable reasons (objectivist bucket). But why the endless threads about it?

Why so much passion? Why so many (predominantly) males asserting or arguing?

Perhaps we need a chill pill. It’s really fun to look at the data (that’s why we are on ASR) and it’s really fun to explore why X does Y.

Maybe we can keep it at that without being heated. Maybe we can manage to have personal opinions without being overtly decisive. Especially on this forum.

Whether we talk about MQA or DSD, perhaps we can just smile and remember that we have a basic goal of hearing music that is nice, and that is enough.

The measurements - pro and con - are just another level in having fun in this hobby.
The anger comes from the internal struggle many here face in holding two conflicting beliefs (e.g., supernatural belief vs. science/skepticism). Projection (can be seen as anger) and compartmentalization are methods used to deal with this psychological discomfort.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compartmentalization_(psychology)

Typically, the most vocal and active members are the one’s who struggle the most with this internal inconsistency. If you come across an especially angry, active and vocal member, odds are he holds a ridiculous belief(s) far more silly than any audiophile belief.
 
Joined
Jun 1, 2019
Messages
26
Likes
5
Here a hot take, I never understood why so many get angry that 16/44 flac is getting more popular. Ignoring that lossy still has issues with heavier and complex even at 224 to 320kbps.

I mean stuff like noisy industrial music.
 
Joined
Jun 1, 2019
Messages
26
Likes
5
The thing is harman target sounds considerably worse than etymotic er4. There is no mean to choose 200hz and below as bass. Causing a lot of confusion. And the high frequency roll off is also problematic which is not the case of real world.
To prove, just use a pair of eqed studio monitors and use ear to eq the earphone. The end result will be much closer to etymotic than harman.
The process we used is use a collection of songs to define bass and mid range (probably 7k and below)
and to use sine wave generator to eq 7khz + . I use to like harman and sean olive. But they proceed to make n5005 and n700 which sound horrible and don't even represent harman target at all. And there is no reason to believe that the original speaker eqed curve has rolled off highs. That's just wrong. More so, the newer iem target is just getting worse and worse. Completely out of controlly wrong. Yes I'm angry. Because they doesn't fucking know shit.
It's not just the Freq choice that bugs me is that the asking db for bass is 10db, half the harman tuning fanboys ignore that masking is a issue with boost that high and same with the boost in the 7k area which is the fake detail area. People give Grado and allot of consumer headphones shit for there treble an bass, but suddenly its the best thing ever on the current harman tuning.

The ER4SR/S have no issue persevering the bass on heavier music and its mids/highs sound way more detailed while being flat. Not to mention i sense allot who cite it as if it the only decent tuning have never heard a netural set up with woofer or good bass extension were bass only shows up if the music has it.

The tuning was about what makes a headphone sound good i have no idea where the "its more netural than the DF tuning and Etymotics version" came from. I know allot who find even the warm ER4XR brighter an much more detailed than a un EQ'd HD650 because of the 4.5db bump at 150Hz.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Messages
13
Likes
17
I'm always surprised at how angry people can get at gear that other people recommend or like. What did the gear do to them?

I now have Harbeth speakers, which appear to be a love 'em or hate 'em brand. The CEO leans heavily objectivist, which may have something to do with it. When I mention I like them, people come roaring out of dark corners to say they are "shitboxes" with "no bass" and "Only if you like highly colored, inaccurate sound". What's interesting is that almost none have heard the model I own, a few of them have heard Harbeths only years ago, and the loudest voices have never listened to Harbeths at all, but have made up their mind based on the 'lossy' cabinet design. And not one complaining about inaccuracy brings up measurements.

So what motivates people to do that? Loyalty y to a particular school of speaker design?
 

Purité Audio

Major Contributor
Industry Insider
Barrowmaster
Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Messages
3,136
Likes
970
Location
London
I'm always surprised at how angry people can get at gear that other people recommend or like. What did the gear do to them?

I now have Harbeth speakers, which appear to be a love 'em or hate 'em brand. The CEO leans heavily objectivist, which may have something to do with it. When I mention I like them, people come roaring out of dark corners to say they are "shitboxes" with "no bass" and "Only if you like highly colored, inaccurate sound". What's interesting is that almost none have heard the model I own, a few of them have heard Harbeths only years ago, and the loudest voices have never listened to Harbeths at all, but have made up their mind based on the 'lossy' cabinet design. And not one complaining about inaccuracy brings up measurements.

So what motivates people to do that? Loyalty y to a particular school of speaker design?
Harbeth really aren’t that coloured, just a slight burr.
Keith
 

RayDunzl

Major Contributor
Central Scrutinizer
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Messages
6,863
Likes
3,032
Location
Riverview, FL
I now have Harbeth speakers, which appear to be a love 'em or hate 'em brand. The CEO leans heavily objectivist, which may have something to do with it. When I mention I like them, people come roaring out of dark corners to say they are "shitboxes" with "no bass" and "Only if you like highly colored, inaccurate sound". What's interesting is that almost none have heard the model I own, a few of them have heard Harbeths only years ago, and the loudest voices have never listened to Harbeths at all, but have made up their mind based on the 'lossy' cabinet design. And not one complaining about inaccuracy brings up measurements.
A pair of Harbeths were the only set of speakers that made me pay attention at the Audio Show back in February.
 
Joined
Jan 27, 2019
Messages
267
Likes
240
A pair of Harbeths were the only set of speakers that made me pay attention at the Audio Show back in February.
Having local stores that sell Harbeth (and having owned a pair of Harbeth) I can't pass by a pair of Harbeth speakers playing music. I'm immediately sucked in and have to listen. "Natural sounding" is the impression that comes to my mind.
 
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Messages
13
Likes
17
I just ran across this joke, which seems relevant:

A mathematician, a scientist, an engineer, and a philosopher are sitting in a cafe in a foreign country. Outside the window, they see a black sheep in a field by itself.
The engineer says, “Well, what do you know? It looks like the sheep around here are black!”

The scientist gives him a skeptical look and says, “Well, at least some of them are.”

The mathematician looks at the first two and says, “Well, at least one of them is.”

Then the philosopher looks doubtfully at the other three and says, “Well, at least on one side.”
 

Sal1950

Major Contributor
The Chicago Crusher
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
5,364
Likes
2,688
Location
Central Fl
So what motivates people to do that? Loyalty y to a particular school of speaker design?
Speakers are a highly personal decision since they mostly sound different from one another. If they don't agree with that particular choice of a system sound, in their opinion you are in error and need to be informed of that error. Don't pay any attention.
 
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Messages
13
Likes
17
Having local stores that sell Harbeth (and having owned a pair of Harbeth) I can't pass by a pair of Harbeth speakers playing music. I'm immediately sucked in and have to listen. "Natural sounding" is the impression that comes to my mind.
I'll probably find out they add some inaccuracy and I just happen to prefer it. But that's exactly my experience, and why I wanted them at home to experience with Qobuz, and Tidal, and the 1000+ recordings on my music server.
 

Pluto

Active Member
Patreon Donor
Joined
Sep 2, 2018
Messages
157
Likes
255
Location
Harrow, UK
Why so much passion? Why so many (predominantly) males asserting or arguing?
Simply, money.

If you have been duped into spending $kk on some highly dubious premise you will, in all likelihood, get extremely agitated at the possibility that you have been fooled into parting with a sum of money well beyond the true worth of the purchase. It therefore becomes necessary to "talk-up" and defend the value of your investment.

Consider what would happen if, hypothetically, it was demonstrated – beyond a doubt – that any piece of audio kit (other than transducers) could be fully specified numerically and there was no further need for debate. The value of a lot of kit would tumble to near-nothing and, probably, an awful lot of litigation would ensue.

It is this kind of concern that, to my mind, drives an awful lot of the nonsense.
 

JJB70

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Messages
1,107
Likes
1,834
Location
Milton Keynes, England
I have seen DBT test where people couldn’t differentiate between 420k mp3 and FLAC of the same recording.
The difference between FLAC and MP3 is nothing like as pronounced as some want us to believe. I can discern a difference with some recordings but not for a majority and not reliably. And in no cases does good quality MP3 sound any worse than FLAC for normal listening in my view. If you need to concentrate hard and still cannot identify differences between FLAC and MP3 with total reliability (in my experience that is everyone I know if they're honest) then that tells its own story. I use FLAC now as memory is cheap and I tell myself it is better but I am playing the same psychological mind game as sighted comparisons and think MP3 is one of the most unfairly maligned technologies in audio.
 

Similar threads

Top Bottom