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Why integrated amps need matching?

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alaios

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So when you are new into buying speakers you would find many guides on which integrated amps match better with that specific speaker and so on. When it comes to power amplifiers though there is no really such discussion going on. If I am not wrong into this "finding" or "belief" can you please explain why is that?
Is it because that the integrated has precooked specific circuits: dsp, pre-amp, amp and all together give a specific character. When you pick all components yourself the variations are simply unlimited that is hard if not impossible to test them with some speaker matching.



Thanks a lot.
Alex
 
This post I just made in another thread is relevant: https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...quest-my-first-hifi-system.60794/post-2239876

To expand on that, a lot of old school amplifiers, especially tube amplifiers, do not have a flat frequency response, and back in the day there was not much DSP going on.

Also, different amplifiers had different output impedances. Especially high output impedances have a negative impact on damping factor, which is the control the amplifier has over the woofer. If a speaker is known for good bass response, a low output impedance amplifier may help it get that. So pairing a low output impedance amplifer with the speaker could be beneficial.

With a speaker where the bass response already is not great, e.g., an electrostatic speaker, the output impedance of the amplifier may not have much of an impact. But, they are not very efficient and need an amplifier that can provide a lot of continuous power. So, for that speaker there would be less concern over output impedance and more concern over the grunt of the amplifier.

Today, there are a lot of very good solid state amplifiers that provide a lot of power and have a very low output impedance. So, amplifier/speaker matching is not so much of an issue these days.

Lastly, if you want to adjust the tonality of your speakers, use DSP; it will give you way, way more control over the tonality than just matching the amplifier to the speaker, and allow you to make very fine adjustments if you desire.

Moreover, most good solid state amplifiers these days have a flat frequency response, so they really won't change the tonality of the speaker, making amplifier/speaker pairing that much more irrelevant these days.
 
Amp matching is nonsense. It doesn’t matter if it’s a integrated or just a power amp.

Just make sure you have enough power to drive your speakers to the level you want, and you’re good to go. Focus more on looks, features, reliability, decent objective performance.
 
An integrated amp is a preamp and power amp in the same box so the same rules/guidelines apply. A receiver adds a tuner. An AVR (audio video receiver) adds more channels, bass management for a subwoofer, decoding for the DVD & Blu-Ray formats, and often more. (I use an AVR).

First, the amplifier must be capable of driving the impedance load. A higher impedance speaker is always OK, but some amplifiers are not rated for 4-Ohm speakers.

Second, you need enough power (wattage) to go as loud as you want, but if the amplifier has more power than the speaker can handle, you can burn-out the speaker. (You can actually burn-out a speaker rated for the same power as the amp if you over-drive the amp into clipping/distortion, and that gets a bit "complicated".)

If I am not wrong into this "finding" or "belief" can you please explain why is that?
Click to expand...
Most "audiophile" websites/resources have a lot of nonsense! This is one of the few scientific-rational resources. ;)

Is it because that the integrated has precooked specific circuits: dsp, pre-amp, amp and all together give a specific character.
Click to expand...
An amplifier (or any electronics) isn't supposed to have any "character" unless you are using EQ, tone controls, DSP, etc. An ideal amplifier is supposed to act like a "straight" wire with gain" or "transparent". With modern electronics it's not that hard (or expensive) to reach that goal, except sometimes there will be some nose (hum, hiss, or whine in the background). You are more likely to get audible noise with high-gain circuits like phono preamps and mic preamps.

Speakers in rooms are a different story...

See Audiophoolery.
 
voodooless said:
Amp matching is nonsense. It doesn’t matter if it’s a integrated or just a power amp.

Just make sure you have enough power to drive your speakers to the level you want, and you’re good to go. Focus more on looks, features, reliability, decent objective performance.
Click to expand...
At least what one can find on internet is discussing for specific speakers specific matching integrated amps and this is sometthing that continues today
 
alaios said:
At least what one can find on internet is discussing for specific speakers specific matching integrated amps and this is sometthing that continues today
Click to expand...
I've never come across these guides or discssions of integrated amplifier- speaker matching. Maybe it's more of flea watt tube amplifier thing?
 
Amplifier/Speaker matching is not nonsense and power is not everything.

Highly efficient loudspeakers often need very quiet (low residual noise) amplifiers. Many high powered amplifiers are not particularly low noise designs.

Loudspeakers that present unusually difficult or widely fluctuating loads across the spectrum also require amplifiers with particular characteristics.

Thankfully, the days of crazy HiFi speaker designs with 1R impedances are gone.
 
restorer-john said:
Amplifier/Speaker matching is not nonsense and power is not everything.

Highly efficient loudspeakers often need very quiet (low residual noise) amplifiers. Many high powered amplifiers are not particularly low noise designs.

Loudspeakers that present unusually difficult or widely fluctuating loads across the spectrum also require amplifiers with particular characteristics.

Thankfully, the days of crazy HiFi speaker designs with 1R impedances are gone.
Click to expand...

Kissing frogs is not matching :) There are Only 5 types of amps.
Good , bad, owned and kept, owned and regretted and haven't owned yet :)
 
restorer-john said:
Amplifier/Speaker matching is not nonsense and power is not everything.

Highly efficient loudspeakers often need very quiet (low residual noise) amplifiers. Many high powered amplifiers are not particularly low noise designs.

Loudspeakers that present unusually difficult or widely fluctuating loads across the spectrum also require amplifiers with particular characteristics.

Thankfully, the days of crazy HiFi speaker designs with 1R impedances are gone.
Click to expand...

I agree.

Where I do think the idea of amp matching goes off the rails - and I am guessing you would agree with this - is the fuzzier audiophile claims of "synergy" between amps with certain alleged "sound signatures" and certain kinds of speakers. For example, "XYZ speaker is a bit forward-sounding, so pairing it with an amp that uses MOSFETs will be a good idea since MOSFETS produce a darker sound than bipolars."
 
restorer-john said:
Thankfully, the days of crazy HiFi speaker designs with 1R impedances are gone.
Click to expand...
That's probably not quite right. Let me quote Denon:
The nominal impedance is the specification of the resistance at dormant state. During operation and with increasing volume, the actual impedance can deviate greatly from the nominal impedance. In addition, the impedance is frequency dependent. The impedance can then assume values significantly below the nominal impedance to below 1 Ohm.
Translated from German

Ben Duncan also talks about this in the book 'High Performance Audio Power Amplifiers':
7.4.3 Damping factor & 2.3.2 What speakers are looking for
 
pogo said:
That's probably not quite right. Let me quote Denon:
The nominal impedance is the specification of the resistance at dormant state. During operation and with increasing volume, the actual impedance can deviate greatly from the nominal impedance. In addition, the impedance is frequency dependent. The impedance can then assume values significantly below the nominal impedance to below 1 Ohm.
Translated from German

Ben Duncan also talks about this in the book 'High Performance Audio Power Amplifiers':
7.4.3 Damping factor & 2.3.2 What speakers are looking for
Click to expand...

In my rather large collection of loudspeakers, this loudspeaker sinks the lowest to ~2.4R@120Hz. Even vintage medium power amplifiers, often with aggressive current limiting, driven to quite high levels have no significant trouble with such a load.

1740801596146.png
 
restorer-john said:
Amplifier/Speaker matching is not nonsense and power is not everything.

Highly efficient loudspeakers often need very quiet (low residual noise) amplifiers. Many high powered amplifiers are not particularly low noise designs.

Loudspeakers that present unusually difficult or widely fluctuating loads across the spectrum also require amplifiers with particular characteristics.

Thankfully, the days of crazy HiFi speaker designs with 1R impedances are gone.
Click to expand...
All of these fall under the cathegories of either exotic stuff or simple a prerequisite any amp should have. This isn’t exactly matching.
 
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