Why IEMs sound harsh to my ears ?

[FTB]

Hi there,

I am more of an headphones guy, for 30 years now.
I am ok with the Harman target for headphones as the measurements from Amir or Oratory fit what I hear or vice-versa.
This way I use the Akg k371 on a daily basis and I like them despite they are a bit dark and lack a bit of presence due to the 4 kHz dip.

I have also IEMs for traveling, I have Truthear Zero (blue), Zero red and 7hz zero (mk1). Had others in the past.
They have, to my ears, all the same problem : too harsh.

The Zero blue are really too brilliant in mids and highs but it's kinda shown in the graphics of Amir or Oratory :



What I don't get is why the 7hz or Zero Red sound still too harsh while their response is below the appropriate curve :



For example, in this track when the brass come at 3min50, they sound harsh :

On this one the strings are harsh :

And these two tracks are pretty OK with the Akg.
I could find other tracks sounding good with my headphones but not IEMs.

I use Apple music with lossless quality so it doesn't come from that.
I have tried all the tips included with the IEMs, including foams, problem still here.
I can't believe it has to do with badly recorded tracks as it would do a lot of badly recorded tracks, even from the greatest.

I am starting to wonder if I'm OK with the Harman target for headphones but not the one for IEMs.

I don't have a lot of data about the one for IEMs, I am more informed about the headphones one.
I don't know if there is a tolerance like "two third of people like the curve, the other third prefer more/less bass, more/less mids and highs".

Wondering if other people meet this problem : being ok with Harman target for headphones but not for IEMs ?

 

[staticV3]

The Harman IE target sounds harsh to me and many others as well.

I'd recommend trying some other Target responses.

This is a good starting point IMO:


Note that this is for 60318-4 measurements, like those from Amir and oratory1990. It won't work for 5128 measurements.

To try it out, you can open https://autoeq.app/, search your IEM model, load the .txt as Target, then select an Equalizer type that you can apply in your setup.

AutoEQ will then generate an appropriate correction presets.

 

[FTB]

Great, thank you !
I hadn't read the Gate thread so I was not aware we are a lot finding the IEM target too hot.

I'm now listening to the Zero Red EQed to the target you give and that sound very good ! Solid bass and sweeter higher frequencies, the balance is good

What's strange is the stock Zero Red (without Bass+ adapter) are not so far from the "static IEM target" but it seems to be enough to give a harsh sound.



I am now trying to find IEMs that could sound good without EQ. I might use them on stage in the future and I don't know if PEQ can be used in this situation.

 

[Ropeburn]

The Harman IE target sounds harsh to me and many others as well.

I'd recommend trying some other Target responses.

This is a good starting point IMO:
View attachment 517160

Note that this is for 60318-4 measurements, like those from Amir and oratory1990. It won't work for 5128 measurements.

To try it out, you can open https://autoeq.app/, search your IEM model, load the .txt as Target, then select an Equalizer type that you can apply in your setup.

AutoEQ will then generate an appropriate correction presets.

It really seems like the Harman target is not for everyone. Perhaps a rather unlucky standard? I have the same problem and just 2-3dB less on the big mid hump fixes it.

Given how big it is at exactly the highest ear sensitivity, and how many people find it grating, I'd say the target is flawed.

 

[Somafunk]

It’s a good benchmark to start with but I need more bass, hump in lower midrange and take a slice off the 2khz to 6kHz peak and extend the treble…so not much like Harman at all.

This is my fav two iem’s and how they graph compared to Harman target, I use these without eq

Squiglink - IEM frequency response database by Super* Review

Compare hundreds of frequency response graphs between IEMs and earphones from manufacturers like Moondrop, Sony, 64 Audio, Fiio, and more.

squig.link

And my other iem, kiwi ears HBB Punch compared to Harman, I have a roon preset that cuts a few db from 2khz to 6kHz with eq but as the bass on this iem is rather elevated the treble is not so much of an issue to listen to if I don’t use eq.

Squiglink - IEM frequency response database by Hobby Talk

Compare hundreds of frequency response graphs between IEMs and earphones from manufacturers like Moondrop, Sony, 64 Audio, Fiio, and more.

hobbytalk.squig.link

 

[Mr. Reeee]

Hi there,

I am more of an headphones guy, for 30 years now.
I am ok with the Harman target for headphones as the measurements from Amir or Oratory fit what I hear or vice-versa.
This way I use the Akg k371 on a daily basis and I like them despite they are a bit dark and lack a bit of presence due to the 4 kHz dip.

I have also IEMs for traveling, I have Truthear Zero (blue), Zero red and 7hz zero (mk1). Had others in the past.
They have, to my ears, all the same problem : too harsh.

The Zero blue are really too brilliant in mids and highs but it's kinda shown in the graphics of Amir or Oratory :

What I don't get is why the 7hz or Zero Red sound still too harsh while their response is below the appropriate curve :

I use Apple music with lossless quality so it doesn't come from that.

It sure sounds like those IEMs are the problem.
Headphones with too pronounced highs are fatiguing to listen to.
Trust your ears, not charts.

Maybe it’s time to try something else?

I’ve been using Etymōtic IEMs for years. I have ER4SR (flat response) and ER4XR (bass boost). Just got the XRs on sale to see if I like.
I use for them long listening sessions with no issues at all, like transatlantic flights. Or working all day.
Long symphonies (even several in a row) and complete Wagner operas? No problem.
Sound quality is excellent. Accurate and detailed with open soundstage.

All my music is ripped with Apple Lossless.

NEW ER4 Earphones

ER4SR is Etymotic’s reference hi-fidelity in-ear monitor, for those who demand nothing less than the highest reproduction accuracy. The ER4SR right and left channels are matched within an industry-leading 1dB across frequencies from 100 Hz to 10 kHz.

etymotic.com

NEW ER4 Earphones

ER4XR is Etymotic’s in-ear monitor for those who demand nothing less than the highest reproduction accuracy in the midrange and treble frequencies, but prefer a tastefully added bass presence. The ER4XR right and left channels are matched within an industry-leading 1dB across frequencies from...

etymotic.com

 

[AdrianusG]

Hi there,

I am more of an headphones guy, for 30 years now.
I am ok with the Harman target for headphones as the measurements from Amir or Oratory fit what I hear or vice-versa.
This way I use the Akg k371 on a daily basis and I like them despite they are a bit dark and lack a bit of presence due to the 4 kHz dip.

I have also IEMs for traveling, I have Truthear Zero (blue), Zero red and 7hz zero (mk1). Had others in the past.
They have, to my ears, all the same problem : too harsh.

The Zero blue are really too brilliant in mids and highs but it's kinda shown in the graphics of Amir or Oratory :

View attachment 517146View attachment 517147

What I don't get is why the 7hz or Zero Red sound still too harsh while their response is below the appropriate curve :

View attachment 517148View attachment 517149View attachment 517150

For example, in this track when the brass come at 3min50, they sound harsh :

On this one the strings are harsh :

And these two tracks are pretty OK with the Akg.
I could find other tracks sounding good with my headphones but not IEMs.

I use Apple music with lossless quality so it doesn't come from that.
I have tried all the tips included with the IEMs, including foams, problem still here.
I can't believe it has to do with badly recorded tracks as it would do a lot of badly recorded tracks, even from the greatest.

I am starting to wonder if I'm OK with the Harman target for headphones but not the one for IEMs.

I don't have a lot of data about the one for IEMs, I am more informed about the headphones one.
I don't know if there is a tolerance like "two third of people like the curve, the other third prefer more/less bass, more/less mids and highs".

Wondering if other people meet this problem : being ok with Harman target for headphones but not for IEMs ?

I think it more or less (technicalities aside) has to do with a good fit or not.

 

[FTB]

It’s a good benchmark to start with but I need more bass, hump in lower midrange and take a slice off the 2khz to 6kHz peak and extend the treble…so not much like Harman at all.

This is my fav two iem’s and how they graph compared to Harman target, I use these without eq

Squiglink - IEM frequency response database by Super* Review

Compare hundreds of frequency response graphs between IEMs and earphones from manufacturers like Moondrop, Sony, 64 Audio, Fiio, and more.

squig.link

And my other iem, kiwi ears HBB Punch compared to Harman, I have a roon preset that cuts a few db from 2khz to 6kHz with eq but as the bass on this iem is rather elevated the treble is not so much of an issue to listen to if I don’t use eq.

Squiglink - IEM frequency response database by Hobby Talk

Compare hundreds of frequency response graphs between IEMs and earphones from manufacturers like Moondrop, Sony, 64 Audio, Fiio, and more.

hobbytalk.squig.link

Thanks, I will take a look at those IEMs.

It sure sounds like those IEMs are the problem.
Headphones with too pronounced highs are fatiguing to listen to.
Trust your ears, not charts.

Maybe it’s time to try something else?

I’ve been using Etymōtic IEMs for years. I have ER4SR (flat response) and ER4XR (bass boost). Just got the XRs on sale to see if I like.
I use for them long listening sessions with no issues at all, like transatlantic flights. Or working all day.
Long symphonies (even several in a row) and complete Wagner operas? No problem.
Sound quality is excellent. Accurate and detailed with open soundstage.

All my music is ripped with Apple Lossless.

NEW ER4 Earphones

ER4SR is Etymotic’s reference hi-fidelity in-ear monitor, for those who demand nothing less than the highest reproduction accuracy. The ER4SR right and left channels are matched within an industry-leading 1dB across frequencies from 100 Hz to 10 kHz.

etymotic.com

NEW ER4 Earphones

ER4XR is Etymotic’s in-ear monitor for those who demand nothing less than the highest reproduction accuracy in the midrange and treble frequencies, but prefer a tastefully added bass presence. The ER4XR right and left channels are matched within an industry-leading 1dB across frequencies from...

etymotic.com

I had ER4XR ten years ago. For what I recall (with caution as it was a long time ago), not harsh but no bass and a bit boring. More recently I tried the ER2XR and that was too dark.

I think it more or less (technicalities aside) has to do with a good fit or not.

No fit issue, I tried my 3 pairs of IEMs with all the tips included and the same problem.

 

[FTB]

I played with EQ a bit, with different targets, different FR coming from different reviewers... (still with the zero red).

I came to conclusion that I like the IEF Preference 2025 target from Crinacle with BK5128 :



The target proposed above is good but a bit more dark.

It's interesting Crinacle succeeded to find a target that could please people not ok with Harman for IEMs.

The Red with bass+ is a bit above around 1.5k and 4k :



The new Daybreak follow pretty well the target obviously, Truthear Pure are tempting also...

 

[Smithlog]

Pretty common. The Harman IEM target has more upper-mid/treble energy, so people who like Harman on headphones can still find IEMs a bit harsh.