Why I Stopped Using Roon

[ahofer]

When I used non-Roon solutions, I used some tagging package to manage all the spelling, genre and naming conventions of classical tracks. Roon mostly took care of it. And it does seem to read a lot of my legacy tagging.

 

[ddaudio]

Thank you for the information.
I will have a look on recent releases.
However, some months ago, I had found LMS difficult to cope with my (not so personal) tagging.
Regards,

Be sure to report back (here or maybe better over at Lyrion) on what you find. Tag handling is one of the things we've been improving but we're always open to suggestions.

 

[Andysu]

roon sounds complicated to use i don't use it on any of AVR denon , stormaudio not even trinnov , what is " roon " ? sounds like some animal that has been discovered in the deep amazon forest ?

trinnov stormaudio don't even have internet radio for classical music

 

[Keith_W]

Last night I was at a friend's place and searched for some music using Roon, which he is using. He is on the same streaming service as me - Tidal.

I did a search for "Schubert Hyperion" (to look for the famous recordings of all of Schubert lieder with Graham Johnson). It came up with 20 results. I know for a fact that all 37 albums are on Tidal! I pulled out my phone, opened Tidal, and did the same search. All 37 albums appeared.

So I presume that both Roon and Tidal are accessing the same metadata. Yet Tidal can find the albums for me, but Roon can't.

The whole idea of Roon is that it is able to find music for you. But it can't even do that. How can it possibly be worth so much money?

 

[Abdo]

Well. I love Roon, for me it's perfect. I have four rooms all in Roon Readyy and it works perfectly. I have a library of 5,000 CDs, all digitized in FLAC, everything is instantaneous and everything works perfectly. So for me it works very well, so it's worth what they charge. I haven't paid for a lifetime subscription yet, but I will because it's not worth paying monthly anymore.

 

[Kreiger]

This is likely a way more pedestrian issue with Roon(through Qobuz) than what some of you are experiencing, but I found that the recommendation algorithm for me was lacking.

If I set it to, say, Post-Hardcore (Pierce the Veil, Chiodos, Coheed and Cambria, etc), Roon Radio would inevitably start serving me things I didnt ask for, like it ended up giving me Pantera and Sepultura or Korn or Marilyn Manson.

Now, I like those artists and I dont have any issue with them so im not gonna block them, but thats not the kind of music I was trying to listen to in the first place.

and don't even get me started on trying to do any kind of synthwave. It immediately dips into Trance or House or some other kind of electronic music.

I re-installed Apple Music and loaded up a song and immediately checked the next 10 songs, all in the genre I was looking for.

I don't own enough of my own music to worry about playing local files, so I'm not sure exactly what I get from Roon by itself. I'd stick with just Qobuz but I heard that algorithm was not great either, so im hesitant.

 

[Arindal]

Post-Hardcore (Pierce the Veil, Chiodos, Coheed and Cambria, etc), Roon Radio would inevitably start serving me things I didnt ask for, like it ended up giving me Pantera and Sepultura or Korn or Marilyn Manson.

That is to be expected, as roon radio algorithm is seemingly relying on Xperi´s genre classification and other deep metadata, tending to ´look one level higher´ in genre hierarchy to broaden the stylistic range. While I find that inspiring in general, in certain cases of pretty heterogeneous top-level genres, like Rock&Pop or R´n´B, it can be annoying.

I'd stick with just Qobuz but I heard that algorithm was not great either, so im hesitant.

Can confirm, it is not great at all. Roon is superior IMHO.

did a search for "Schubert Hyperion" (to look for the famous recordings of all of Schubert lieder with Graham Johnson). It came up with 20 results. I know for a fact that all 37 albums are on Tidal! I pulled out my phone, opened Tidal, and did the same search. All 37 albums appeared.

Text search in roon is not meant to deliver comprehensive results, particularly not when used with record label names (which are not part of complex metadata) or composer´s names (which always deliver a zillion of results).

Such queries deliver best results, if roon´s specific catalogues, like the composer´s discography, are combined with focus filtering methods. Particularly performer and label name as filters do deliver pretty solid results.

The whole idea of Roon is that it is able to find music for you. But it can't even do that. How can it possibly be worth so much money?

In my humble opinion, it is the only tool to find music in a structured way, based on musicological catalogues such as opus lists, recordings per composition, and structured metadata. Would say it is worth every penny, if you know how to use its admittingly complex features.

 

[Jokke]

I have tried Roon. It is nice to have the extra metadata, information and search possibilities, however I expected it to be superior in terms of streaming reliability and it was not.
Therefore I did not take a subscription.

 

[Kreiger]

That is to be expected, as roon radio algorithm is seemingly relying on Xperi´s genre classification and other deep metadata, tending to ´look one level higher´ in genre hierarchy to broaden the stylistic range. While I find that inspiring in general, in certain cases of pretty heterogeneous top-level genres, like Rock&Pop or R´n´B, it can be annoying.



Can confirm, it is not great at all. Roon is superior IMHO.



Text search in roon is not meant to deliver comprehensive results, particularly not when used with record label names (which are not part of complex metadata) or composer´s names (which always deliver a zillion of results).

Such queries deliver best results, if roon´s specific catalogues, like the composer´s discography, are combined with focus filtering methods. Particularly performer and label name as filters do deliver pretty solid results.

View attachment 486514



In my humble opinion, it is the only tool to find music in a structured way, based on musicological catalogues such as opus lists, recordings per composition, and structured metadata. Would say it is worth every penny, if you know how to use its admittingly complex features.

I appreciate your detailed breakdown. Based on this, it sounds like Roon, as a standalone player, is not for me then. I did some other research and in addition to what you mentioned I kept seeing that Roon was very good at integrating local music into files and listening sessions. I don’t have any of those, or not enough to speak of.

When I listen to music, it’s one of three scenarios. 1) background music while working or gaming. 2) music for a specific mood (driving or gym) 3) dedicated listening on my audio equipment at home.

Roon seems to be generally best for the third, maybe the second but it failed miserably at the first because I want it to stay basically on the path I set and it meandered because of that high level tagging you mentioned.

I went back to Apple Music to check the algorithm/radio and choose a song and looked at the queue. Spot on. I did the same with Tidal. Also spot on (which is more impressive to me because I’ve never used tidal), I didn’t try Qobuz at all and Roons test went high level again within 4 songs.

I respect what Roon is for what it is, but I’m not sure it’s for me right now. I like to be able to find things in a genre that are new to me and be reminded of tracks I’ve forgotten but loved. Roons algorithm will never do that AND THATS OK. Square peg, round hole. It’s fine.

Seems like now I have to decide between Apple Music and Tidal. If Roon could use Tidals algorithm, that would be a reason to go back so I could use the local files I do have.

again, thank you for your detailed response and please let me know if I missed anything or if I am incorrect. I’m new to all of this.

 

[Keith_W]

Such queries deliver best results, if roon´s specific catalogues, like the composer´s discography, are combined with focus filtering methods. Particularly performer and label name as filters do deliver pretty solid results.

View attachment 486514



In my humble opinion, it is the only tool to find music in a structured way, based on musicological catalogues such as opus lists, recordings per composition, and structured metadata. Would say it is worth every penny, if you know how to use its admittingly complex features.

Your screenshot illustrates exactly why Roon is rubbish. Do a search for "Schubert Hyperion" and it's contaminated by five irrelevant results, and that's just on the first page. I looked up one of the albums, it has multiple composers in it and Schubert is only one of them. Did all 37 albums in that lieder series turn up? The last time I checked, it didn't.

In contrast, this is Tidal's own app. Type in "Schubert Hyperion" and all 37 albums show up. It would be nice if they ranked them in order from 1 to 37, but this is a computer algorithm.

I don't want to type something in, get irrelevant results, "focus" on something, have to use the keyboard again, get more irrelevant results, and so on. I want to type it in ONCE, and be presented with relevant results. You know, just like what Tidal is able to do. If I ask for Schubert, I want Schubert. Not Shostakovich, not Rimsky-Korsakov, not Phillip Glass, nobody else. And I want ALL the results, not half the albums contaminated by irrelevant albums.

I have no use for a "music finding app" that can not find music.

 

[Arindal]

Do a search for "Schubert Hyperion" and it's contaminated by five irrelevant results, and that's just on the first page. I looked up one of the albums, it has multiple composers in it and Schubert is only one of them.

Are you talking about structured search query, such as from the composer´s discography, or just typing ´Schubert Hyperion´ into the free text search? The latter is not supposed to deliver comprehensive results. Never was.

The partial discography filed under ´composed by´ is listing all albums which contain compositions of the composer in question. That is a feature, not a bug.

Did all 37 albums in that lieder series turn up? The last time I checked, it didn't.

I see 38 albums in Graham Jones´ discography, when applying focus criteria ´Schubert´ AND `Hyperion´ correctly:

It would be nice if they ranked them in order from 1 to 37, but this is a computer algorithm.

In roon, you can sort them either by release date or by album title, which gives you exactly the order you were asking for.

If I ask for Schubert, I want Schubert. Not Shostakovich, not Rimsky-Korsakov, not Phillip Glass, nobody else.

If you want that, go to Schubert's discography, composition list or filter the global composition list, instead of typing ´Schubert Hyperion´. As label names are not part of complex metadata, this is manyfold the wrong search tool for your task.

I don't want to type something in, get irrelevant results, "focus" on something, have to use the keyboard again, get more irrelevant results, and so on. I want to type it in ONCE, and be presented with relevant results. You know, just like what Tidal is able to do.

Behind roon is a complex musicological database with multi-dimensional browsing tools one should apply properly to the desired query. Roon is by browsing logic similar neither to Google nor to Tidal. If you prefer the latter, that's perfectly fine. I got rid of Tidal partly due to irrelevant search results and flawed metadata, particularly when it comes to compositions and Opus numbers.

PS: If you are annoyed by using the keyboard, you know why the Lord has invented the iPad?

 

[CapMan]

Long time Roon user with lifetime subscription. Love that it seamlessly integrates my ripped library with Qobuz and allows me to tag non-local Qobuz content as part of my library. Works flawlessly and is totally solid running on a Roon ROCK server - minimal issues and certainly no more than my Sonos. I might reboot the server once a month if that.

I really appreciate the deep meta data and the ability to explore in and around artists and albums.

Before I purchased my Denon AVR (which is now Roon Ready) and started using Dirac and ART, I was very grateful for the extensive DSP functionality and made use of both the EQ and convolution functionality provided.

That said, I understand why some may feel it's not worth the price of admission, but I would not be without it .

 

[Abdo]

My question is: is there anything better than Roon currently?
I've searched everywhere, installed everything... the only one that truly works as a server, instantly handling multiple environments, with precise audio distribution responses, is Roon.
I currently have 6000 CDs digitized in FLAC and cataloged in Roon, and it works perfectly.
All the others I've tested don't even come close. If anyone has a better suggestion than Roon, I would immensely appreciate hearing about it and testing it.
Roon may not be perfect for everyone; everything in life is like that, not even our wives are perfect... we'll always find some flaw, just like us.

 

[SKBubba]

I see 38 albums in Graham Jones´ discography, when applying focus criteria ´Schubert´ AND `Hyperion´ correctly:

yes, but those all have to be already added to your library, correct? Focus doesn't operate on the entire tidal/qobuz catalog afaik. That would be awesome if it did.

 

[Arindal]

yes, but those all have to be already added to your library, correct?

No, it is a global search (in my case from Qobuz), never added one of these albums.

Focus doesn't operate on the entire tidal/qobuz catalog afaik. That would be awesome if it did.

It does, if you stick to the ´discography´ section of an artist/performer´s page, or ´composed by´ of a composer or composition/recording list, respectively. Does even work with composers having a pretty extended back catalogue:

In this case focussed on a particular conductor AND record label, out of a whopping 14.027 albums composed by J.S.Bach.

You probably mean ´Albums´ or ´Tracks´ within the ´My library´ section, which allows focus filtering solely to, well, your library.

 

[SKBubba]

Thanks, did not know that!