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Why has Audio (and maybe all hobbies) become so hostile?

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Mashcky

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Spinorama by no means predict that it will sound good in any room.
A 5" woofer speaker with a good spin isn't going to sound awesome in a 20' x 30' room with high ceilings.
My present understanding is that this is a result of the maximum output rather than the design of the speaker. Holding constant that a speaker can produce required SPL without getting too close to its maximum output/power handling, my statement would be true most of the time? In other words, of all speaker with 5" woofers, the ones with the best spinorama would more likely than not sound better than the other speaker with 5" woofers without regard to room size, even if it wouldn't be the best choice for said room.

Perhaps we agree on this point generally but were making different assumptions about what "good in your room" meant.
 

Lbstyling

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It would be great for reducing poverty, but world wide harmony is a whole different ball game. Even if it happened by accident, it wouldn't last more than a second until someone got bored or decided to take advantage of the situation for personal gain.

I think it was Dostoevsky who wrote that if man actually achieved the perfect socialist utopia, the first thing he would do is burn it to the ground because it bores him. Great minds think alike. Perhaps you should write a novel!:D
 

Lbstyling

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My present understanding is that this is a result of the maximum output rather than the design of the speaker. Holding constant that a speaker can produce required SPL without getting too close to its maximum output/power handling, my statement would be true most of the time? In other words, of all speaker with 5" woofers, the ones with the best spinorama would more likely than not sound better than the other speaker with 5" woofers without regard to room size, even if it wouldn't be the best choice for said room.

Word for word. That's what the toole studies show. Can't remember the corrilation number, but you are Correct.
 

Jimbob54

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I can't think of many other industries where something like a TotalDAC exists and there are people sincerely reporting that it's 'more revealing' or something

Pick any hobby where there is a degree of fetisishm mixed with exotic sounding tech and pseudo science. As well as actual science.

Fishing
Cycling
Music (creating and recording)
Personal Computing
Gaming

to name but a few
 

watchnerd

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My present understanding is that this is a result of the maximum output rather than the design of the speaker. Holding constant that a speaker can produce required SPL without getting too close to its maximum output/power handling, my statement would be true most of the time? In other words, of all speaker with 5" woofers, the ones with the best spinorama would more likely than not sound better than the other speaker with 5" woofers without regard to room size, even if it wouldn't be the best choice for said room.

Perhaps we agree on this point generally but were making different assumptions about what "good in your room" meant.

Spinorama is a good starting point, for sure.

But it doesn't mean you personally prefer it over another good spin speaker.

I can give you two speakers that have similarly 'good' spinoramas and you will undoubtedly be able to tell them apart in a double blind test, and probably prefer one over the other.

You're highly unlikely to fail a DBT to tell speakers apart.

That isn't really true of DACs or amps.
 

watchnerd

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Word for word. That's what the toole studies show. Can't remember the corrilation number, but you are Correct.

Correct on what the research means for directivity.

Not correct that good directivity score automatically correlates to all aspects of "sounds good" at a subjective level for you, personally.

My head transfer function and pinnae are not the same as yours.
 
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Lbstyling

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Correct on what the research means for directivity.

Not correct that good directivity score directly correlates to all aspects of "sounds good" at a subjective level for you, personally.

My head transfer function and pinnae are not the same as yours.

He qualified his statement with 'likely' (as in odds over 50% for a random selected person)

And ' most of the time' (same as above.)

For such a contentious topic,(very hard to walk that line!) I (personally) conclude it was well thought out and am good with the statement myself.:)

Even if you disagree, I think credit for really thinking about it then?? .....go on!:)
 

watchnerd

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He qualified his statement with 'likely' (as in odds over 50% for a random selected person)

And ' most of the time' (same as above.)

For such a contentious topic,(very hard to walk that line!) I (personally) conclude it was well thought out and am good with the statement myself.:)

Even if you disagree, I think credit for really thinking about it then?? .....go on!:)

The original point being....

Speakers, and rooms, are far far far far away from being a solved problem when compared to electronics.

It's really not worth a lot of brain cells for consumers to worry about microscopic differences between 'good enough' DACs and amps and 'State of the Art' DACs and amps, because you probably won't hear it.*

Recording quality, rooms, and speakers are where the mental energy should go.

*yes, this means my own high end amps are pretty much a waste of money, objectively
 

Lbstyling

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The original point being....

Speakers, and rooms, are far far far far away from being a solved problem when compared to electronics.

It's really not worth a lot of brain cells to worry about microscopic differences between 'good enough' DACs and amps and 'State of the Art' DACs and amps, because you probably won't hear it.*

Recording quality, rooms, and speakers are where the mental energy should go.

*yes, this means my own high end amps are pretty much a waste of money, objectively

100% agreed on everything here, even though it pains me a little to admit the amp part!:D

I know it drifted off the original point, aaaand it's not Christmas yet, but, go on....just say 'yes'...mashcky deserves a little respect for that one imo....

please?

Your a long time member and top poster, it would carry a lot of weight from someone like you, that he is at least, 'mostly' there? :):p:D
 

Sal1950

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Nobody can properly appreciate literature, music, art or history without questioning what they're being told, otherwise any old rubbish can pass for 'art'.
S
Have you looked or listened to the crap that passes for art or music in todays world? :eek:
 

Inner Space

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Have you looked or listened to the crap that passes for art or music in todays world? :eek:

C'mon, Sal. Everything you listen to and love was called that in the beginning. I bet my granddad said that about the Floyd, around the time Gilmour joined the band.
 

watchnerd

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He qualified his statement with 'likely' (as in odds over 50% for a random selected person)

And ' most of the time' (same as above.)

For such a contentious topic,(very hard to walk that line!) I (personally) conclude it was well thought out and am good with the statement myself.:)

Even if you disagree, I think credit for really thinking about it then?? .....go on!:)

"Spinorama is a good starting point, for sure."

I could add some little stars and stuff to jazz it up, I suppose?

;)
 

watchnerd

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Pick any hobby where there is a degree of fetisishm mixed with exotic sounding tech and pseudo science. As well as actual science.

Fishing
Cycling
Music (creating and recording)
Personal Computing
Gaming

to name but a few

In my sport, we have fights about knurling.
 

Lbstyling

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In my sport, we have fights about knurling.


*after 2 days of trying to calculate the feed rate to make the lines line up for the perfect volume knob, he sweats profusely...*

His mind spins with voices of the engineers gone past...

"Go for the 2 wheel, it's more stable"

"Don't go 2 wheel! That pattern is so boring! You want it to look special, right??"

Mopping his brow, Agggh F**k it!

Chucks in the 20mm 2 wheel, Goes manual....

Instant regret. :facepalm: what have I done.

10 years in now. Bins it. It's not good enough, the next one will be better!...Maybe brass this time?
 

tmtomh

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This is the only web forum I know where when you don't check in on a controversial thread for a while, and then come back, the thread has gotten more civil as the discussion developed. "Man, that ASR forum - those threads really stay on the rails." :)

Seriously, though, one of the things I really like about this place.
 

Sal1950

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This is the only web forum I know where when you don't check in on a controversial thread for a while, and then come back, the thread has gotten more civil as the discussion developed. "Man, that ASR forum - those threads really stay on the rails." :)
Seriously, though, one of the things I really like about this place.
The members here do a pretty good job at self policing, it's a rare occasion when Amir or Thomas have to take direct action.
Thanks friends!
 
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