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Why has Audio (and maybe all hobbies) become so hostile?
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watchnerd
Grand Contributor
I think blaming liberal arts colleges (I didn't go to one, was an applied physics major) is a bit of a red herring.
Why do I think that?
Plenty of audiophile designers with engineering or science degrees are perfectly willing to play the audiophile voodoo card if it helps sales.
Why do I think that?
Plenty of audiophile designers with engineering or science degrees are perfectly willing to play the audiophile voodoo card if it helps sales.
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
Undergraduate institutions specializing in the liberal arts -- literature, philosophy, art history, history, etc.
Originally intended as a modern version of the 'classical education' of 100 years ago, but evolved substantially since then. No more Latin.
Not a deal breaker if you plan, say, to go to law school or go into advertising.
Or become a wizard.
mhardy6647
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Many if not most institutions of higher learning (in the US) are liberal arts colleges, with relatively broad requirements for coursework in arts and sciences as part of the degree requirement. The degrees awarded to undergraduates upon graduation are typically BA or AB degrees (Bachelor of Arts) -- as opposed to the Bachelor of Science degree, which (theoretically) may allow graduation with a more focused course of study.
Perhaps ironically, my UG degree is a BA, but my institution, although technically a liberal arts school (The Johns Hopkins University) is a pretty technically focused place and my education wasn't terribly broadly-based (and decidedly focused on the "hard' sciences). I did minor in German, though
And as such, should be bringing critical thinking to the fore. Nobody can properly appreciate literature, music, art or history without questioning what they're being told, otherwise any old rubbish can pass for 'art'.
S
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In the US they are 4 year institutions that mainly provide an education in English, history and the like. There will also be science classes but the science profs. (while good) are often not current in whatever field they got a PhD in. There are exceptions, but that is the general status of things.
Did I say liberal arts colleges were the problem? It is the curriculum, the professoriate (including science profs.) and etc. - in universities too.
Teaching is not highly regarded in the research universities - the emphasis is on bringing in grant $$. This allows the Dean to put up new wooden paneling in his office, given the high 'overhead' (half or more of your grant $$ will be taken away by the admin.).
Again, exceptions will apply - notably in the Ivy League and comparable places started by RR barons in the West.
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
Sure.
But, again, I don't think it's an over-abundance of post modern lit crit majors causing the whole problem.
Plenty of guys with engineering degrees willing to make a quick buck and sell magic promises are also part of the issue.
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watchnerd
Grand Contributor
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
Not exactly.
There are specialized tech universities: MIT, CalTech, Harvey Mudd, etc.
And then there are broad full spectrum universities with graduate level tech research: Stanford, UC Berkeley, Princeton, etc.
I have a difficult time with civility and respect when many manufacturers fraudulently sell needlessly expensive products to unwitting consumers. The misrepresentative and misleading marketing speak makes it almost impossible for someone non-technical like myself to figure out which products are worth purchasing because the jargon sounds the same whether misleading or not.
The worst part is that someone seeking a quality sonic experience could get 'stuck' and never figure out what matters most to sound quality. One could say, "they're having fun doing it!" but it would be better if they could have fun on their way to achieving the best engineered system possible. While there are some legitimate preferences and unexplored preference evaluation criteria, it is genuinely upsetting to me that we can't all be spending our time and money pursuing the differences in systems that could actually matter.
The worst part is that someone seeking a quality sonic experience could get 'stuck' and never figure out what matters most to sound quality. One could say, "they're having fun doing it!" but it would be better if they could have fun on their way to achieving the best engineered system possible. While there are some legitimate preferences and unexplored preference evaluation criteria, it is genuinely upsetting to me that we can't all be spending our time and money pursuing the differences in systems that could actually matter.
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
Are you speaking specifically about audio?
Because I think what you said applies to pretty much all technology marketing, as well as cars, cookware, power tools, etc.
And I say this as someone who does it for a living.
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
LOL
Could certainly be applied to many things but access to good information varies significantly across consumer products, including the education it takes to find and comprehend that information.
Personally, audio products might be the most difficult products to purchase that I've ever come across. To take a few of your examples:
- there are polls that help a consumer determine the expected reliability of vehicles by make and manufacturer (not to mention tight regulations on the most important factors like safety);
- for cookware I can read Wirecutter, America's Test Kitchen, Cooks Illustrated, or a reputable cookbook to quickly avoid rip-offs, if not find a great frying pan for the money; and
- power tools have been more difficult in my experience but the adequacy of most equipment is evidenced by the fact that people can achieve good results even without quality tools if they have knowledge and experience.
But oh, you were referring to marketing in particular! I suppose what I'm talking about is that consumer who wishes to rely on something beyond marketing like a consumer magazine or professional review.
Killingbeans
Major Contributor
It would be great for reducing poverty, but world wide harmony is a whole different ball game. Even if it happened by accident, it wouldn't last more than a second until someone got bored or decided to take advantage of the situation for personal gain.
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
TBH, I think you're vastly over-thinking it.
Electronics are mostly a solved problem, as long as you don't buy junk. A lot of SINAD differences ASR exposes are inaudible, especially with music.
Speakers are all highly flawed and full of compromise, not at all a solved problem, and have to be good in your room. So just buy what sounds good to your ears.
Anything left over, EQ it.
100% but with the addition that I can't think of many other industries where something like a TotalDAC exists and there are people sincerely reporting that it's 'more revealing' or something. It's when I see this kind of behavior that I find myself getting bent out of shape on the internet.
Maybe I still don't understand the ASR orthodoxy on speakers but isn't the whole point of the spinorama that a performant speaker will sound predictably good in any room? I completely agree speakers aren't solved the way DACs and amps are but buying what sounds good to our ears can lead to the same cognitive traps that cause some to purchase boutique DACs and the like, no? Paired with the fact that most don't have access to a dealer where they can listen to several brands in the same room the way one could go to the local automobile dealer strip and test nearly unlimited automobiles on the same piece of road.
If someone is reading ASR this is practicable and expected but personally I'm thinking about a hapless consumer who wouldn't got through the trouble or even be aware that this is beneficial.
Not necessarily. Education and application actually stifle harmful actions and even desires if its … wait for it …… effective moral education and application. Intellectual education as you implied does indeed have that limitation. Example. Ran into a guy in my volunteer work. Middle of the conversation tears well up. He confessed he was on his way to kill a man when we met. He right then and there decided to not kill. Topic was advantage of forgiveness and patience as a solution for revenge. It was effective non-intellectual education. Smart guy incredibly upset. Brief moral education; moral education applied. Now a hopefully smarter guy with options...still incredibly upset yet his desire to kill abated. Most importantly at least one, if not more lives were saved. Of course your example wasn’t revenge based but it illustrates the writers point. Education and application are very much underestimated as a solution for many many illls. Not all the worlds problems agreed, but the majority of especially interpersonal ills could be drastically reduced. Just think if kindness (admittedly an area of improvement for me) respect, empathy, patience (many in this forum are well educated here), and wait for it...humility...the acceptance that everybody is better than I at something (shockingly many are here with this quality) would storm the audio hobby forums. Who could question this education when applied would not crush hobby aggression in minutes? At least repeat offenses. Life does require practice for measurable improvement.
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
Spinorama by no means predict that it will sound good in any room.
A 5" woofer speaker with a good spin isn't going to sound awesome in a 20' x 30' room with high ceilings.
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