Why evaluating the sound of a single speaker is essential

[MarkS]

Well, it's great fun that's legal, can be shared and doesn't harm people.

Excellent points!

I had a deadline today so I did the work and listened (thanks to our exchanges) to the first seven symphonies in 5.1 at 24/352.8!!! Wonderful stuff.

I will need to pace myself a bit more slowly than that, but I will certainly listen to them all. Thanks again for the recommendation!

 

[moonlight rainbow dream]

I doubt, very much, that a circle of confusion or equal loudness curve is something I need to be concerned with since neither have been a problem when listening for the last 55 yrs. Either I haven't been paying attention or everyone else thinks confirmation bias does not include what you read.

I can't count the number of times I've heard or read audiophiles asking why their speakers don't sound good at low volume, seek recommendations for speakers that work well for low level listening, or push high-$ amplifier upgrades so that their speakers can "come alive" at low levels, etc... just completely ignorant of a fundamental aspect of human hearing.

 

[Newman]

Well, it's great fun that's legal, can be shared and doesn't harm people. I had a deadline today so I did the work and listened (thanks to our exchanges) to the first seven symphonies in 5.1 at 24/352.8!!! Wonderful stuff.

It's interesting that there is an Auro-3D version. What file format is that, and what devices can read it directly? All AV units with Auro-3D? Or a media player, then into the AV unit?

 

[Heinrich]

... mono, Inoticed that in the high-frequency range you get a mixture ofdifferent tones, which produces a sense of harshness or an increasein distortion. ...
Only yesterday, I attended aperformance in a church by a local string ensemble, ...

The discussion steered towards the merits of multi-channel playback. Love to see people talking about the real use of all the bling.

On what 'mono' signal to use in the evaluation of 'a single speaker', I already raised a question that was (logically) ignored. Reiterated: why not use a dedicated set of recordings that are made to be listened to in mono, using a single speaker?

It could be environmental sounds, leaves rustling, water falling, (close to white noise) birds singing, ravens barking, people talking, at a party, (articulation), music of different genres (the lows). The sound engineer would know how to design the recording--we have to trust their's with every other recording anyway.

And not the least, we know all too well, that a recording or its playback respectively are not virtual reality and will never be, regardless of the number of channels. The listener always has to impose their imagination onto the physical sound field, mono, stereo, multi. W/o imagination, well the set-up could be perfect, but the book remains closed ;-)

 

[Raj21p]

Evaluating a speaker in mono strips away imaging tricks and room effects, letting you hear its true tonal balance and flaws. If it sounds good in mono, it’ll shine in stereo too.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

It's interesting that there is an Auro-3D version. What file format is that, and what devices can read it directly? All AV units with Auro-3D? Or a media player, then into the AV unit?

Auro-3D often comes in a WAV package and there are ACRs/AVPs that will decode it. There is a VST plug-in from Auro that will do it but, since I am only interested in 5.1, I rarely use it.

 

[Elkerton]

Auro-3D often comes in a WAV package and there are ACRs/AVPs that will decode it. There is a VST plug-in from Auro that will do it but, since I am only interested in 5.1, I rarely use it.

It's interesting that you choose to use only 5.1.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

It's interesting that you choose to use only 5.1.

I've lived with a 5.1.4 setup in the past and enjoyed it. However, I have decided that, in my current domestic situation, the encumbrance of additional speakers was not worth the return in musical enjoyment.

 

[Elkerton]

Dr. Toole has decided much the same.

 

[MarkS]

Evaluating a speaker in mono strips away imaging tricks and room effects, letting you hear its true tonal balance and flaws. If it sounds good in mono, it’ll shine in stereo too.

This is largely but not completely true. Those "imaging tricks" (essential to the stereo illusion of sounds localized in space) depend more strongly on directivity properties than on tonal balance.

For a single speaker, tonal balance dominates what you hear, and it's nearly impossible (I claim) to hear differences in directivity.

Per Harman research, the single most revealing test signal for a single speaker is pink noise.

I claim that an excellent test for the effects of directivity is out-of-phase pink noise on a stereo pair. This sounds quite different on wide vs narrow directivity speakers (it is also highly room dependent). But AFAIK this has never been studied.

 

[Salt]

This is largely but not completely true. Those "imaging tricks" (essential to the stereo illusion of sounds localized in space) depend more strongly on directivity properties than on tonal balance.

For a single speaker, tonal balance dominates what you hear, and it's nearly impossible (I claim) to hear differences in directivity.

Per Harman research, the single most revealing test signal for a single speaker is pink noise.

I claim that an excellent test for the effects of directivity is out-of-phase pink noise on a stereo pair. This sounds quite different on wide vs narrow directivity speakers (it is also highly room dependent). But AFAIK this has never been studied.

Interesting point .

 

[Heinrich]

Per Harman research, the single most revealing test signal for a single speaker is pink noise.

Revealing of what? Tonality issues, that Dr Toole describes as resonances. What is a resonance? A periodic process that takes up energy (here for real) from another periodic process. Periodicity is meant as describable in terms of frequency components A resonator dissipates the taken up energy.

Nothing particularly bad about resonances, right? It is the very foundation of building speakers, namely to drive them w/ an amp.

Besides resonance as a driven force (lol), what do we get from tonal balance when leaving the 'classics', and that pretty bland 'Fast Car' and other show pieces of recorded music? I wonder if the criteria for evaluating a speaker pair are chosen right when pink noise is the bar to pass.

I asked AI for the most demanding, and wow, my 3K$ setup wasn't challenged the least. (Aphex Twins, Windowlicker and alike)

 

[Sal1950]

It's interesting that there is an Auro-3D version. What file format is that, and what devices can read it directly? All AV units with Auro-3D? Or a media player, then into the AV unit?

Auro can also be packaged in flac, unlike Atmos it doesn't require any special concerns. Any basic media player that can handle multich files like quad or 5.1 will pass Auro encoded files to a Auro capable AV receiver. It's so easy.

 

[Sal1950]

Dr. Toole has decided much the same.

If either were fans of the more popular styles of music I believe they might feel differently. Both Atmos and Auro can bring a totally different
perspective with the addition of the vertical dimension to the soundspace.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

If either were fans of the more popular styles of music I believe they might feel differently. Both Atmos and Auro can bring a totally different
perspective with the addition of the vertical dimension to the soundspace.

You are probably right. I am even less tolerant of the "more popular styles of music" in Atmos/Auro than in stereo. Go figure.

 

[beagleman]

Evaluating a speaker in mono strips away imaging tricks and room effects, letting you hear its true tonal balance and flaws. If it sounds good in mono, it’ll shine in stereo too.

I have often set up ONE speaker, but in my front yard (at moderate volumes of course) and really hear how it sounds. Great speakers really shine doing this!

 

[Holmz]

I have often set up ONE speaker, but in my front yard (at moderate volumes of course) and really hear how it sounds. Great speakers really shine doing this!

Do they also sound dark at night? And only shine during the day?

 

[Sal1950]

You are probably right. I am even less tolerant of the "more popular styles of music" in Atmos/Auro than in stereo. Go figure.

No disrespect meant but I can somewhat understand it, pretty easily actually, something we've discussed before.
With Classical being mostly mastered to reproduce a live concerthall event, anything being done much beyond putting room reflection and ambiance into the surround channels is mostly reacted to negatively by the Classical crowd. They just want to be teleported to a particular presentation night in the concert hall it was recorded in. Putting the listener in the middle of the orchestra with instruments placed around them is not something that is normally well accepted by either the creators or listeners of Classical music and I don't see that ever changing much. No wonder why you react to it negatively Kal.

OTOH, except for recordings of "live concerts", most of the popular styles of music are a studio creation. We multichannel enthusiasts largely not only accept having instruments tastefully placed around us in the soundspace but desire it. On the multich enthusiast sites, new releases of popular music is very often given negative reviews for underuse of the surround channels. They didn't spend what they have on modern gear capable of reproducing the awesome high resolution, fully discrete, 4 and more channels of music only to get a recording consisting mainly ambiance in the surrounds. Hell you could get a good shot at that with a $100 Hafler Dynaquad Extraction box. The entry of the movies Atmos technology into the music world has been very well accepted by both the performing artists and mastering engineers of the popular styles of music, it has given them another exciting dimension on which to paint their canvas of a musical soundspace. Witness the explosion of immersive type music mastering over the last decade. Speaking strictly for myself, I love it.

 

[Newman]

Mark Waldrep, who produced 'stage' and 'audience' mixes for customers to choose from, has noted that "As a musician, the ability to listen from among the musicians is preferable to me over being in the audience. I'm particularly careful to capture the music and not the mechanics of producing sounds." So there we see another potential distinction: how it sounds to musicians. He is also reported to comment that "the “stage” perspective mixes provide a level of involvement and space that I haven’t heard from any other label."

I wonder how much of the objection to being sonically on stage with the musicians is a result of preconditioning. If so, the opportunity for deconditioning raises its attractive head.

cheers

 

[Sal1950]

I wonder how much of the objection to being sonically on stage with the musicians is a result of preconditioning. If so, the opportunity for deconditioning raises its attractive head.

??? I have a few of Mark Waldrep AIX recordings, his BluRays mostly contained both Stage and Audience perspective mixes in 5.1, 24/96 resolution, also Stereo 24/96. Incredible stuff, he's a great recording engineer.

IMHO This is a awesome live performance of Mark Chesnutts greatest hits from the 1990s during which he scored 14 #1 hits, 23 Top 10 singles, four platinum albums and five gold records. Popular-Country style music is super-rarely recorded like this, just put the band in front of the mikes and let them rock. Recorded to high resolution multich digital on Blu Ray with multiple listening perspectives available with video.
Thank You Dr. AIX (Mark Waldrep - retired)

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