Why E-Ink not used more often for the DAC display?

[curiouspeter]

Unlike OLED, E-Ink does not suffer burn-in. Also, it needs power only to change the display, but not to maintain the display. This should make it the ideal choice for DACs because:

1. unpowered means less interference
2. sampling rate, volume, and input name do not change often anyway

Monochrome E-Ink is not expensive anymore.

 

[danadam]

Monochrome E-Ink is not expensive anymore.

Last time I read about e-ink, it was complaining that it is expensive
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26143407

 

[Blumlein 88]

I agree with you. Seems it could be a viable option.

 

[daftcombo]

Perhaps because it is not as easy to read in dark rooms?

 

[Berwhale]

I can think of several reasons...

• E-ink is slow to refresh, they are not responsive enough when displaying menus like the one on my D50s*
• E-ink displays require backlighting for low light and nightime use.
• The manufacturer would need to clear the e-ink display when the DAC is turned off (otherwise it would look like it's still on).

*I once tried using the 'experimental' browser on my Kobo Clara e-reader. It was useable, but not a pleasant experience.

 

[Iglo]

And E-ink is still way more expensive vs a similar-sized simple LCD. And you then need to add a backlight (adding to the manufacturing effort and cost).

The cost difference would be less of an issue on an expensive device, but then you could also add a more fancy LCD.

 

[ZolaIII]

There are much cheaper and better options than e-ink.
https://www.clearinkdisplays.com/

Guess DAP manufacturers aren't that creative.

 

[boXem]

Because they are only available is sizes too big for a DAC/DAP?

 

[HiFidFan]

Because they are only available is sizes too big for a DAC/DAP?

Aren't they used in watches/wearables? Pretty small.

 

[chris719]

And E-ink is still way more expensive vs a similar-sized simple LCD. And you then need to add a backlight (adding to the manufacturing effort and cost).

The cost difference would be less of an issue on an expensive device, but then you could also add a more fancy LCD.

E-Ink, e-paper, and MIP LCDs will need a frontlight (not a backlight) which is just something that isn't all that common. You can find them, but the issue is mostly that once you have wasted a large portion of your power savings on a few LEDs, you might as well go all the way for an LCD and get better color and refresh.

You're pretty much on target, though. It's not saving any money over an LCD or OLED.

 

[chris719]

Aren't they used in watches/wearables? Pretty small.

Yeah, they are easy to find in small sizes. They are primarily optimized for high ambient light conditions, so I just don't think it fits with what most people want or expect for non-portable electronics.

 

[ZolaIII]

E-Ink, e-paper, and MIP LCDs will need a frontlight (not a backlight) which is just something that isn't all that common. You can find them, but the issue is mostly that once you have wasted a large portion of your power savings on a few LEDs, you might as well go all the way for an LCD and get better color and refresh.

You're pretty much on target, though. It's not saving any money over an LCD or OLED.

Every single display needs additional emitting light source, rest of them need it all the time and pretty high during a day or on direct sunlight and still with tiny ones you won't get even close in such conditions regarding usability with either LCD's or OLED's. If we spoke about something more oriented towards video I would say sure go for IGZO.
Best real demonstration of how big difference it actually makes is Amazfit Bip (regarding it's battery life and also how it makes price of final product reduced).

 

[restorer-john]

Because "e-ink" looks like crap. More to the point, why don't manufacturers bring back Nixies?

They would look better on D/A converters. Screw the power consumption.

Or better yet, bring back CRTs. Yeah.

 

[curiouspeter]

E-Ink, e-paper, and MIP LCDs will need a frontlight (not a backlight) which is just something that isn't all that common. You can find them, but the issue is mostly that once you have wasted a large portion of your power savings on a few LEDs, you might as well go all the way for an LCD and get better color and refresh.

You're pretty much on target, though. It's not saving any money over an LCD or OLED.

A DAC doesn't need a front light because it can just use the ambient light of the room. I control the light anyway. It's not like a Kindle or a watch that needs to work in the dark.

 

[curiouspeter]

Because "e-ink" looks like crap. More to the point, why don't manufacturers bring back Nixies?

They would look better on D/A converters. Screw the power consumption.

View attachment 117945

Or better yet, bring back CRTs. Yeah.

They don't look that bad. Some higher-end cameras use something similar for the secondary (top) display. You can see settings like ISO, f number, and shutter speed before you turn on the camera, which is pretty cool.

 

[chris719]

A DAC doesn't need a front light because it can just use the ambient light of the room. I control the light anyway. It's not like a Kindle or a watch that needs to work in the dark.

And when the room has little light or is dim? I have evaluated all kinds of reflective displays in product development and they are not very good with evening / dim lighting.

 

[chris719]

Because "e-ink" looks like crap. More to the point, why don't manufacturers bring back Nixies?

They would look better on D/A converters. Screw the power consumption.

Or better yet, bring back CRTs. Yeah.

E-Ink / E-Paper look fine if you buy a high enough resolution one. Resolution and look are not their problems. They look about 1000x better than some crap VFD or low resolution OLED if you have the ambient brightness to support it.

 

[curiouspeter]

And when the room has little light or is dim? I have evaluated all kinds of reflective displays in product development and they are not very good with evening / dim lighting.

It's hard to find a balance. I like to listen with the lights on. My wife prefers it all dark. I don't mind bright LED lights, but that hurts the eyes of some people.

 

[chris719]

It's hard to find a balance. I like to listen with the lights on. My wife prefers it all dark. I don't mind bright LED lights, but that hurts the eyes of some people.

I understand where you're coming from, but if you're in the shoes of the manufacturer, it's a much bigger risk to have a potentially unreadable display.

 

[highpurityusbcable]

It will allow respectable manufacturers to pre upload e-books inside the DACs and describe it as a sound changing feature. Sound signature will of course change because of the synergy. For $1k more you will be able to upload your own books to change the sound signature. But the best sound will be achieved only after uploading paid product reviews, it will add holographic soundstage, details you've never heard before (even you wife will hear it).