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Why don’t ASR members laud Neumann speakers?

LTig

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Hello from France

In the past, Neumann (initially Klein + Hummel) had a speaker between KH 120 and KH 310, the O 200.

It would be great if Neumann could produce a KH 210 with improved specifications.
Nope, I'd rather prefer a KH 210 with a 6.5" woofer. It's the mIssing link between KH 120 and KH 310.
 

Habu

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Nope, I'd rather prefer a KH 210 with a 6.5" woofer. It's the mIssing link between KH 120 and KH 310.
The new O 200 (KH 210) would have the same 6,5 woofer but with improved specifications.
The O 200 was the missing link between the O 110 (KH 120) and the 0 300 (KH 310) regarding size, specifications and price !
 

mightycicadalord

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That's terrible. Are you using the app? If so my first suggestion is to turn down the threshold for standby.

If that doesn't work, I've found Sennheiser very responsive and diligent in their troubleshooting. My replacement for the speaker that wouldn't stay in standby arrived within a week. Unfortunately, the replacement has the same issue.

I believe the stand by on the KH80 is just a crap shoot of it working right or not, and it may actually have a design flaw.

There's a thread with more info at soundonsound, some guy in there also got network control of the speaker to adjust the DSP/logo/etc because the MA-1 app was so awful at launch.

 

Ilkless

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I never got why their new generation of DSP speakers started with the all-new KH80 instead of updating the KH120. A KH120 with KH80 levels of tech but more SPL is an instant buy for me.
 

stevenswall

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I never got why their new generation of DSP speakers started with the all-new KH80 instead of updating the KH120. A KH120 with KH80 levels of tech but more SPL is an instant buy for me.

They need something better than the KH120 to compete with the Kali IN-8 that has higher SPL, lower cost, more extension, and a coaxial driver to boot, all at half the price.

If it takes them Neumann a year though, Kali will likely have an new high end line or modify the IN-series to get rid of the diffraction issues with the waveguide/midrange border and I wouldn't be surprised if the moved to an aluminum baffle too.

Listening to the KH80 I can't say they sound bad or anything (Beyond things like not going deep and not having great vertical dispersion), but it just seems like a company that isn't pushing things forward, either with price to performance (Kali, HiVi), or state of the art performance on the high end (Genelec, Kii, Dutch&Dutch.)

Companies in this unfortunate position don't have a reason to exist without releasing something new to compete in one of the above categories.
 

LTig

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[..]
Listening to the KH80 I can't say they sound bad or anything (Beyond things like not going deep and not having great vertical dispersion), but it just seems like a company that isn't pushing things forward, either with price to performance (Kali, HiVi), or state of the art performance on the high end (Genelec, Kii, Dutch&Dutch.)
Looking at measurements of the KH 420 I think that it can stand very well against Kii, D&D and the big Genelec Ones. Dispersion will be a bit worse but bass might be better and we know that bass is important for preference.
Companies in this unfortunate position don't have a reason to exist without releasing something new to compete in one of the above categories.
Time will show.
 

thewas

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Looking at measurements of the KH 420 I think that it can stand very well against Kii, D&D and the big Genelec Ones. Dispersion will be a bit worse but bass might be better and we know that bass is important for preference.
Neumann has currently just 4 monitors models which all are still top performers great in their size and price classes, also the KH310 cannot be beaten by any current Genelec in its price range, the KH120 is at least as good as 8030C and the KH80 is better than the 8020D (both in similar price classes) so questioning the reason for Neumann monitors to exist is imho not reasonable. Also the comparison with Kali just because those are coaxial is not sensible, I have both owned Kali IN-8, Neumann KH120 and Genelec M040 (similar to 8040) in the past. Also just because some as the D&D or Kii now offer bass cardioids imho doesn't necessarily always give them an audible advantage unless you cannot use EQ as I had written here. People (including me) tend often to overestimate the meaning of some curves if they look "extra-continuous" to us...
 
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BoredErica

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8030c has noise issues for some people, and KH80 takes 5.5-6 seconds from flipping the on switch to outputting sound. That annoys me.
 

Matias

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KH80 takes 5.5-6 seconds from flipping the on switch to outputting sound. That annoys me.
I wish all my problems were like that... I just love my KH 80.
 
OP
Vintage57

Vintage57

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I never turn mine off. My ATC for 14 years before and my current Neumann’s for the past 2 1/2 years. I believe it’s easier on the components not to heat cycle. YMMV
 

BoredErica

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I never turn mine off. My ATC for 14 years before and my current Neumann’s for the past 2 1/2 years. I believe it’s easier on the components not to heat cycle. YMMV
I'll ask johnyang later what he thinks about that for pa5. Certainly easier not to have to turn anything off.
 

TurtlePaul

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They need something better than the KH120 to compete with the Kali IN-8 that has higher SPL, lower cost, more extension, and a coaxial driver to boot, all at half the price.

If it takes them Neumann a year though, Kali will likely have an new high end line or modify the IN-series to get rid of the diffraction issues with the waveguide/midrange border and I wouldn't be surprised if the moved to an aluminum baffle too.
I understand liking the Kali speakers, and wish Amir would review the KH 120 to see the matchup, but the Neumann KH 80 has a pref score of 6.2 vs. 5.3 for the Kalis. That is because the Neumann on-axis response is much much flatter than the Kali even with the KH 80 having less bass. Not to mention the Kali have over 1% distortion (third harmonic dominant) up to 300 hz and spike above 1% around 2 Khz, while speakers from Genelec and Neumann seem to have half of that. I like what Kali is doing, but they are certainly designing to a budget while Genelec and Neumann are not and have the better on-axis nearfield performance to show for it. You can see that Kali drivers and cabinets are of lower quality (by design).
 

tlkmx

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Neumann has currently just 4 monitors models which all are still top performers great in their size and price classes, also the KH310 cannot be beaten by any current Genelec in its price range, the KH120 is at least as good as 8030C and the KH80 is better than the 8020D (both in similar price classes) so questioning the reason for Neumann monitors to exist is imho not reasonable. Also the comparison with Kali just because those are coaxial is not sensible, I have both owned Kali IN-8, Neumann KH120 and Genelec M040 (similar to 8040) in the past. Also just because some as the D&D or Kii now offer bass cardioids imho doesn't necessarily always give them an audible advantage unless you cannot use EQ as I had written here. People (including me) tend often to overestimate the meaning of some curves if they look "extra-continuous" to us...
Since you’ve tried them which one would you choose between the kali, genelec and Neumann ?
 

tlkmx

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Which exact models, listening distance, SPL/bass needs and budget?
Really near field sub 1m mostly like 0.5 to 1
Budget is like 1000 a pair without sub in Europe. It’s for mixing and music production mostly
 

thewas

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Really near field sub 1m mostly like 0.5 to 1
Budget is like 1000 a pair without sub in Europe. It’s for mixing and music production mostly
If deeper bass and louder listening SPLs during your work are needed I would go for the IN-8 v2, otherwise for the tad more precise KH120 and 8030C, the Neumann sounds a bit darker so it depends on your personal preferences.
 
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