Why doesn't there seem to be inexpensive and high-performance power amps?

[oivavoi]

Yamaha had some discontinued pro amps which fit the bill; the p3500s, p5000s and p7000s:
https://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum...mpli-yamaha-p3500s-mise-a-jour-t30056383.html
Loads of power and very good distortion/noise measurements.

EDIT: I would also be interested in seeing measurements of the Crown CTS series, which many people like. Were expensive when they were made, can now be found really cheap on ebay. Needs a fan mod though to become quiet in domestic environments.

 

[Deleted member 9685]

There are inexpensive useable power amplifiers.

 

[Willem]

The 2x250 watt Yamaha p2500s that I bought for my son was only 300 euros. I assume it would measure similarly to the p3500s that was tested in the link above, i.e. very well.

 

[JJB70]

If you just want an amplifier that can drive pretty average efficiency speakers to a good volume and just fade into the background as a transparent part of the chain you really don't need to spend much. Yamaha make a range of good, affordable integrated amplifiers.

 

[Stefano_Milano]

I see that we have yet another winner in the headphone amplifier department, the SMSL SP200 THX. Three hundred dollars and 117 dB of SINAD, dang.

That got me thinking. Very few speaker (power) amplifiers even manage to breach the 100 dB SINAD mark. The few that do cost quite a lot.

What seems to be preventing the construction of power amplifiers that are high-performing and inexpensive at the same time?

Is it power?

https://www.amazon.it/IMG-sta-n-od-amplificatore-digitale-stereo/dp/B00J8LBYGQ

Amp with hypex modules at 285 euros

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

I’d like to see measurements of the Monoprice Monolith 2x200.

 

[Daverz]

https://www.amazon.it/IMG-sta-n-od-amplificatore-digitale-stereo/dp/B00J8LBYGQ

Amp with hypex modules at 285 euros

The specs show THD < 0.02%, which does not bode well for SINAD.

https://www.img-stageline.com/products/pa-systems/pa-amplifiers/digital-pa-amplifiers/sta-400d/

Also note that it seems to be marketed as a PA amp.

 

[cookiefactory]

Think of this way. sp200 is probably 2-8W. For good amp, it's 50W at least, 100W for better and best with 300W plus. The cost goes into each component is much higher. Heat sink and chassis along can cost more than sp200. And we haven't counted power supply. It's of course going to be much more expensive.
Realistically speaking, a sub 10ppm distortion 80W 8ohm(needs to handle 160W 4ohm and should handle 2ohm in certain circumstances) speaker amp is probably going to cost 600 to 1000 dollars already for small runs. Yamaha being mass-producing these, already has offerings with incredible values along with some other individual products.
It's unlikely to see ahb-2 performance under 1000 dollars in the near future.

What are your thoughts on the LJM L12-2 amps?

 

[Dj7675]

I’d like to see measurements of the Monoprice Monolith 2x200.

Not sure if you have seen it measured here or not:
https://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/monoprice-monolith-7-channel-amplifier-review/3

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Not sure if you have seen it measured here or not:
https://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/monoprice-monolith-7-channel-amplifier-review/3

No. Thank you so much for sharing!

 

[JRG]

Think of this way. sp200 is probably 2-8W. For good amp, it's 50W at least, 100W for better and best with 300W plus.

Not everyone really needs high levels of power for their domestic hi-fi systems.

In Europe, most people live in flats of about 90m2 (apartments) with neighbors on the other side of the wall. And the music equipment is usually located in the living room, which is usually around 20 to 35 m2 and without a decent soundproofing.

In that situation you cannot take advantage of great power because it is unfeasible to apply big sound pressures ... without the neighbor calling the police and risking a fine.
Obviously there are people who live in single-family homes and do not have to worry about neighbors ... but in Europe that is the exception, not the norm.

In short, there is a huge market for low-medium power amplifiers (25-75W) ... for people who live in apartments with neighbors and without soundproof rooms. And (at least in Spain) it is a fact that many people have oversized amplifiers for their true needs in terms of sound pressure ...

For example, I have a second hifi system in a 15m2 room (5 x 3 m) with a Klipsch RP 160M speakers and I'm really left over with 35W and even less.... because it is impossible to maintain pressure levels of more than 90-95dB at the listening point without disturbing the neighbors... and that pressure is achieved with very little power in 15m2 with a standard 90 dB/W/m speakers that most people use.

 

[direstraitsfan98]

Akitika GT-102 is my amplifier https://www.akitika.com/measurements.html

This amplifier is not suitable for speakers that go under 6ohms or with speakers with under 94dB sensitivity. But if your speakers tick both those boxes you are good to go for only 300 dollars.

 

[headshake]

https://vacuumtubevalues.com/amplifier-modules/

They are selling ncores on ebay and online. I don't think they are supposed to, but whatever. Even with the markup, the prices are much closer than what the OEMs are marking it up. A 500W nc502mp is only $30 more than the 250W nc252mp. WTF OEMs!?!

 

[digitalfrost]

In Europe, most people live in flats of about 90m2 (apartments) with neighbors on the other side of the wall. And the music equipment is usually located in the living room, which is usually around 20 to 35 m2 and without a decent soundproofing..

While I agree, in europe houses are usually built out of stone. The apartment buildings I've seen in the US are often mostly made of wood frames and IMHO have worse sound proofing than european buildings. And honestly, how loud do you need it? Playing music at > 83dB anywhere is just a lot without nearby people noticing it, no matter the building.

 

[AnLaoJin]

Think of this way. sp200 is probably 2-8W. For good amp, it's 50W at least, 100W for better and best with 300W plus. The cost goes into each component is much higher. Heat sink and chassis along can cost more than sp200. And we haven't counted power supply. It's of course going to be much more expensive.
Realistically speaking, a sub 10ppm distortion 80W 8ohm(needs to handle 160W 4ohm and should handle 2ohm in certain circumstances) speaker amp is probably going to cost 600 to 1000 dollars already for small runs. Yamaha being mass-producing these, already has offerings with incredible values along with some other individual products.
It's unlikely to see ahb-2 performance under 1000 dollars in the near future.

When can you release the power amplifier that beat ahb2? It is better to support ultra-low gain input

 

[Morla]

I do not mean to hijack but what if I went for relatively high sensitive speakers and would only require two handfull of watts? Mine are 95.2dB(B)/2.83V/m [1] and sitting 3m away is

95.2dB 2 Watt
98.2dB 4 Watt
101.2dB 8 Watt
104.2dB 16 Watt

any low powered but inexpensive high quality amps I could use?

[1]: Forté Ⅲ measurements

 

[AnLaoJin]

I do not mean to hijack but what if I went for relatively high sensitive speakers and would only require two handfull of watts? Mine are 95.2dB(B)/2.83V/m [1] and sitting 3m away is

95.2dB 2 Watt
98.2dB 4 Watt
101.2dB 8 Watt
104.2dB 16 Watt

any low powered but inexpensive high quality amps I could use?

[1]: Forté Ⅲ measurements

Assuming your reference sound pressure is 70dB, in order to meet a variety of music peaks, you should leave a clearance of 30dB.
Assuming that your speaker sensitivity is 90dB / 1w1m, a 3W minimum power is required to meet the low distortion in headroom.

 

[Morla]

Assuming that your speaker sensitivity is 90dB / 1w1m, a 3W minimum power is required to meet the low distortion in headroom.

Yep and since mine are literally 95.2/1w/1m. Sitting away 3 meters. Taking into account 30dB headroom I reach 70+30 using 8w (101.2). Not a lot of power needed.

 

[AnLaoJin]

Yep and since mine are literally 95.2/1w/1m. Sitting away 3 meters. Taking into account 30dB headroom I reach 70+30 using 8w (101.2). Not a lot of power needed.

Theoretically, there is no problem, but you need to consider the impedance Valley and the corresponding distortion of the loudspeaker.

 

[Morla]

Theoretically, there is no problem, but you need to consider the impedance Valley and the corresponding distortion of the loudspeaker.

Lowest was 3.6something Ohm.

I wonder if there are any amplifiers for that market segment or if I should just get an NC122MP based amp instead.