Why do well established cable manufacturers still refuse to offer any 4.4mm Pentaconn interconnects?

[pickyAudiophile]

Hi guys.
Any idea why that is the case?

I would prefer buying 4.4mm to dual 1/4" cables, or 4.4mm to dual 3-pin XLR cables, or other 4.4mm terminated assembled interconnects from well established cable manufacturers like e/s Sommercable, Adam Hall, Cordial, Melodika, Oehlbach, Wireworld, ...and many others.
So why do all of these companies leave huge potential revenue on the table ...and drag us into buying both expensive and questionable 4.4mm stuff on Aliexpress?

Do non of these actually do proper market research? Not interested in attracting new young customers? I think that's an ongoing catastrophy from a marketing perspective.

 

[raif71]

Sony has 4.4mm cables. Kimber ones but yes still expensive

 

[pickyAudiophile]

Sony has 4.4mm with their audio products.

Thanks for the contribution, even though that's not a "genuine" cable manufacturer. But what do these specialized in audio cable do? Just sleeping when it comes to 4.4mm, for years? ....Kimber Cable, I see (EDIT)

 

[raif71]

Thanks for the contribution, even though that's not a "genuine" cable manufacturer. But what do these specialized in audio cable do? Just sleeping when it comes to 4.4mm, for years? ....Kimber Cable, I see (EDIT)

haha...I realized you were talking about cable so I edited the post.

 

[chelgrian]

Hi guys.
Any idea why that is the case?

I would prefer buying 4.4mm to dual 3.5mm cables, or 4.4mm to dual 3-pin XLR cables, or other 4.4mm terminated assembled interconnects from well established cable manufacturers like e/s Sommercable, Adam Hall, Cordial, Melodika, Oehlbach, Wireworld, ...and many others.
So why do all of these companies leave huge potential revenue on the table ...and drag us into buying both expensive and questionable 4.4mm stuff on Aliexpress?

Do non of these actually do proper market research? Not interested in attracting new young customers? I think that's an ongoing catastrophy from a marketing perspective.

So few things use 4.4mm Pentaconn that they aren’t leaving very much revenue on the table and it’s likely the cost of stocking such a thing would be more than they made on it.

Having says that VDC Trading will make you anything you want for a price.

 

[audio_tony]

Not the branded cable you're looking for, but these look pretty decent.

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/scan-pro-audio-44mm-pentaconn-to-2x-xlr-female-50cm-for-ifi-zen-can

 

[pickyAudiophile]

Not the branded cable you're looking for, but these look pretty decent.

Thanks. I'm not looking for alternative sources, I just ask myself why manufacturers that otherwise produce decent quality cables (Neutrik+OFC+silver solder+heavy duty enclosure) at reasonable prices, like Cordial or Adam Hall, refuse to release 4.4mm products. Published sale figures on Aliexpress are huuuuge, and counting and counting.

 

[chelgrian]

Thanks. I'm not looking for alternative sources, I just ask myself why manufacturers that otherwise produce decent quality cables (Neutrik+OFC+silver solder+heavy duty enclosure) at reasonable prices, like Cordial or Adam Hall, refuse to release 4.4mm products. Published sale figures on Aliexpress are huuuuge, and counting and counting.

Exactly because they are doing reasonable prices the ones I can find on AliExpress say 1000+ which could just mean 1000 which isn’t a lot and it depends over what time period and if the AliExpress vendors have already saturated the market.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

Published sale figures on Aliexpress are huuuuge,

Link? (or just share the figures?)

 

[Roland68]

Hi guys.
Any idea why that is the case?

I would prefer buying 4.4mm to dual 1/4" cables, or 4.4mm to dual 3-pin XLR cables, or other 4.4mm terminated assembled interconnects from well established cable manufacturers like e/s Sommercable, Adam Hall, Cordial, Melodika, Oehlbach, Wireworld, ...and many others.
So why do all of these companies leave huge potential revenue on the table ...and drag us into buying both expensive and questionable 4.4mm stuff on Aliexpress?

Do non of these actually do proper market research? Not interested in attracting new young customers? I think that's an ongoing catastrophy from a marketing perspective.

Because, unlike other cables, it's a niche market and simply not profitable. Due to the small production runs, the cables would be very expensive.

May I ask what these cables are used for?

 

[RexrothPigeon]

May I ask what these cables are used for?

for IEMs (by people who mistakenly think balanced cables will benefit the sound)

 

[Roland68]

for IEMs (by people who mistakenly think balanced cables will benefit the sound)

Cables with Pentaconn 4.4mm to dual 1/4" connectors, or 4.4mm to dual 3-pin XLR cables, are definitely not used for IEMs.

That's why I asked.

 

[Ropeburn]

One reason I can think of is how fiddly it is to solder. Impossible with the usual semi-automatic machines used for mass cable assembly.

Look up some tutorials. It's horrible. Absolutely no comparison to a 3.5mm plug.

 

[Roland68]

for IEMs (by people who mistakenly think balanced cables will benefit the sound)

Incidentally, balanced headphone cables are also about power handling, which is four times higher with a true balanced amplifier, and about crosstalk/channel separation, both at the device and cable end. This also affects the sound.

One reason I can think of is how fiddly it is to solder. Impossible with the usual semi-automatic machines used for mass cable assembly.

Look up some tutorials. It's horrible. Absolutely no comparison to a 3.5mm plug.

It's also a matter of practice, and there are differences between Pentaconn connectors, but I don't find that too bad.
I find the small 3- and 4-pole Lemo connectors, like those used with the AKG K812, much worse.

In industrial manufacturing, resistance spot welding with current is often used, which is much simpler and faster than soldering.

 

[Bloomer]

Why are RCA connectors ubiquitous when they're in no way the best (or even close) connection method? 'Cuz they're small, indestructable molded ones are super cheap and most anyone who can tell red from black/white can use them? And consumer electronics are made to accept them?

If you need a few, you could always make your own. Soldering teeny, tiny stuff isn't terribly difficult under a magnifier.

 

[Roland68]

Why are RCA connectors ubiquitous when they're in no way the best (or even close) connection method? 'Cuz they're small, indestructable molded ones are super cheap and most anyone who can tell red from black/white can use them? And consumer electronics are made to accept them?

If you need a few, you could always make your own. Soldering teeny, tiny stuff isn't terribly difficult under a magnifier.

The same reason why USB prevailed over all the better connections: cheap, higher profit margin, and sufficient for the masses.
There's a saying: "Millions of flies can't be wrong, shit tastes good."

A 3-pin mini-XLR wouldn't have required any more space, but it would have been expensive.

One shouldn't forget that the RCA connection is already about 85 years old and an established standard. When hi-fi became mainstream with turntables, cassette decks, tuners, etc., the RCA connection was unstoppable, since every device came with an RCA cable set.
And that was decades ago.

Furthermore, these are connectors based on coaxial cables. In the past, with RCA connectors, often only the center conductor was soldered, and the shielding braid was crimped when screwing it together.
The connectors common today, where both have to be soldered, are more of an audiophile thing. Soldering is always a worse solution than crimping.

Overall, this is a complex issue.

 

[Roland68]

Hi guys.
Any idea why that is the case?

I would prefer buying 4.4mm to dual 1/4" cables, or 4.4mm to dual 3-pin XLR cables, or other 4.4mm terminated assembled interconnects from well established cable manufacturers like e/s Sommercable, Adam Hall, Cordial, Melodika, Oehlbach, Wireworld, ...and many others.
So why do all of these companies leave huge potential revenue on the table ...and drag us into buying both expensive and questionable 4.4mm stuff on Aliexpress?

Do non of these actually do proper market research? Not interested in attracting new young customers? I think that's an ongoing catastrophy from a marketing perspective.

To finally answer your question, as already mentioned, it's a very small niche market.
This type of cable is apparently only needed for a handful of devices on the market, including those from iFi, who also offer their own cables.
Using this connector for space reasons is a bad idea for many reasons.

Sales figures are vanishingly small, and it's perfectly understandable why the major cable manufacturers don't offer anything for it.
I see absolutely no sales potential or significant sales figures.
You've probably fallen for AliExpress's (deliberately) confusing sales figures. There's always one figure for the shop's sales and one for the products. I'll attach pictures at the end.
Also, old listings are often supplemented with new items to artificially inflate sales and ratings; this happens on many other platforms as well.

For 4.4 GHz Pentaconn to XLR, I only see small sales figures of 2, 7, 13, 20 units, etc. – practically homeopathic doses. With TRS, there's one retailer who has sold 133 units so far, and another with 71. There are more sales with RCA, but even here the quantities range from 2 to 80 units.

Considering that these are distributed across different lengths and that these are worldwide sales, where is the revenue for the major cable manufacturers?

 

[Ropeburn]

To finally answer your question, as already mentioned, it's a very small niche market.
This type of cable is apparently only needed for a handful of devices on the market, including those from iFi, who also offer their own cables.
Using this connector for space reasons is a bad idea for many reasons.

I found this out when I had the rather silly (technically viable) idea of using a DAC dongle as a balanced line source. 50€ minimum for an adapter cable? Hell no. I'll make one myself! Or so I thought. Let's look up a tutorial...

Lacquered wires and PTFE tape? At that fiddly size? Oh hell fucking no, I thought. Imma just get a regular DAC and meanwhile use the 3.5mm TRS output.

 

[pickyAudiophile]

May I ask what these cables are used for?

Connecting portable devices (e/g dongle DACs) with stationary devices, e/g amplifiers. That's the main purpose.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

Connecting portable devices (e/g dongle DACs) with stationary devices, e/g amplifiers. That's the main purpose.

Is balanced cabling empirically established to be beneficial in this application? (genuine q)