Why do we need a center channel in a home theater system?

[Chrispy]

Problem I have with center channel speaker is that I can't place it optimally while also placing the TV optimally.

Is there any benefit to center if I'm just upmixing from stereo? The sound image is already uncannily sharp and vivid.

Well, with a tv there often is no optimal placement....until we get an acoustically transparent tv!

 

[North_Sky]

Sony OLED TVs (some models) use the entire surface of the panel as a speaker.

 

[restorer-john]

Honestly, the centre channel for HT is highly over-rated and un-necessary in typical setups. Most people don't have an acoustically transparent projection screen and their mains and centre aren't identical and mounted where they should be (i.e. up and in line behind the screen). Like this:

People have their flat panel above the centre channel speaker and the LR mains higher up. All the imaging realistically comes from the mains and if your mains are fantastic imaging speakers you can sit anywhere and the phantom image is still more than good enough, even when off centre. Main reason, the phase information even in discrete digital multichannel is backwards compatible with the good old analog way of doing it- a mixdown to phantom or even 2.0 will give you a glorious L-R stage, two speakers and no crap speakers littering your room.

That's the way I do it, we dispensed with centre speakers and HT years ago. I use the various centres now as sacrificial speakers for my test bench.

Many years ago I had 8 identical large three ways (2 centres), a pile of big power amps and although impressive, I just got sick and tired of surround in general. It's so done and so boring. I guess that comes from selling the stuff and "helping" far too many friends with their "custom install home theatres" which ranged from the tackiest hollywood inspired fiascos to "converting" a bedroom into a HT. Fixing up rubbish installs by professionals, crawling through roof spaces and running cables. Making wall plate after wall plate for my "friends" etc. I'm really glad the HT craze is long gone, now it's fire-pits, pizza ovens, collaborative tech spaces and designer butler's kitchens.

So, no, you don't need a cheap ass centre speaker. Either go hard or go home. Get identical LCR large full range speakers if you must do it.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Sony OLED TVs (some models) use the entire surface of the panel as a speaker.

I just bought one of those and, while it works, it is not worthy of this discussion.

So, no, you don't need a cheap ass centre speaker. Either go hard or go home. Get identical LCR large full range speakers if you must do it.

Ditto!

 

[North_Sky]

I was simply replying in regards to "acoustically transparent TVs" and that was all.
This is the last thing on this planet I'm interested to discuss, period.

 

[maty]

Without a center loudspeaker you can try:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Yamaha+AVR+Dialogue+Level

-> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-r...ialogue-enhancer-vs-raising-center-level.html

Yamaha, Denon, Marantz...

 

[Fluffy]

Honestly, the centre channel for HT is highly over-rated and un-necessary in typical setups. Most people don't have an acoustically transparent projection screen and their mains and centre aren't identical and mounted where they should be (i.e. up and in line behind the screen). Like this:

View attachment 52607

People have their flat panel above the centre channel speaker and the LR mains higher up. All the imaging realistically comes from the mains and if your mains are fantastic imaging speakers you can sit anywhere and the phantom image is still more than good enough, even when off centre. Main reason, the phase information even in discrete digital multichannel is backwards compatible with the good old analog way of doing it- a mixdown to phantom or even 2.0 will give you a glorious L-R stage, two speakers and no crap speakers littering your room.

That's the way I do it, we dispensed with centre speakers and HT years ago. I use the various centres now as sacrificial speakers for my test bench.

Many years ago I had 8 identical large three ways (2 centres), a pile of big power amps and although impressive, I just got sick and tired of surround in general. It's so done and so boring. I guess that comes from selling the stuff and "helping" far too many friends with their "custom install home theatres" which ranged from the tackiest hollywood inspired fiascos to "converting" a bedroom into a HT. Fixing up rubbish installs by professionals, crawling through roof spaces and running cables. Making wall plate after wall plate for my "friends" etc. I'm really glad the HT craze is long gone, now it's fire-pits, pizza ovens, collaborative tech spaces and designer butler's kitchens.

So, no, you don't need a cheap ass centre speaker. Either go hard or go home. Get identical LCR large full range speakers if you must do it.

I don't have as much experience with home theater (actually none at all…), but I feel the same about surround sound. I don't really like it in the cinema to be honest, it mostly takes my focus away from the movie, hearing sounds coming from all over the place. I currently have a simple stereo setup either side of my TV, and I don't feel any deficiencies with the way it sounds or image (dialog is always perfectly centered and clear). I'm hearing so much talk about center speaker this and that and their importance and I just can't figure out what's the big deal. I appreciate that there is at least one person here that shares my view.

 

[North_Sky]

A center speaker channel is more for movie buffs, everyone else don't need this superfluous extravaganza when just watching regular TV. A hi-fi stereo sound system is mighty fine...beats the Tv's own internal speakers (the majority of them).

* Soundbars are popular.

** You a drummer?

 

[Blumlein 88]

Well, with a tv there often is no optimal placement....until we get an acoustically transparent tv!

Here you go. Acoustically transparent projector screens. Put the speaker behind the screen. Enjoy!

https://www.amazon.com/STR-169120-W...ally+transparent+screen&qid=1583180990&sr=8-3

 

[Spocko]

Sony OLED TVs (some models) use the entire surface of the panel as a speaker.

Yep, I have the Sony A9G and use its acoustic glass as my center matched to the Revel m126be as L/R and works fine for movies

 

[North_Sky]

Yep, I have the Sony A9G and use its acoustic glass as my center matched to the Revel m126be as L/R and works fine for movies

And that was exactly my reply to an "acoustically transparent TV".

* The thread's title is misleading a bit; nobody needs or is obliged to have a center Channel speaker in his home theater. There are no laws interdicting to go without one.
But in my own personal experience it is much more fun and desirable for several reasons. It's been discussed for years and there's a large amount of great information on Google.

You are not the only one who said that the sound coming out of your flat panel OLED is decent, good enough...it's a great technology and it works...plus the sub behind the OLED flat panel TV used as it's base/stand.

Some people of course would never dare to do that for serious home theater rooms; they would use a dedicated quality 3-way (midrange-tweeter vertically aligned) center speaker positioned under the TV screen and aimed directly @ the sweet spot. ...Timbre-matched with the front and rear and side and above satellite speakers...say a Dolby Atmos 7.2.4-channel sound system for exemple. The experience beats a 2-channel stereo sound system without the center...etc.
But there are no laws interdicting this practice; in the art of our entertainment the only limits are us, not the equipment and what we believe others do different than us.

A dedicated center channel speaker in a home theater setup is more fun than none, in my honest experienced entertaining opinion. But everyone is free to eliminate that option and stick with the phantom image between Stereo speakers.
No matter what people decide to do just position those two or three front speakers ahead of the TV screen. The distance is up to whoever, but few feet is a good practice.
Say your flat panel is on the wall, the two or three front speakers are two-four feet from the front wall. Experiment and five feet could be what some like best ...

Of course some rooms are more restricted than others in experimentation.
And same for a center channel speaker. The main thing is to enjoy our movies in our home theaters, with or without a center speaker, and with or without an OLED TV that has sound coming out from its screen's surface.

 

[Chrispy]

I don't have as much experience with home theater (actually none at all…), but I feel the same about surround sound. I don't really like it in the cinema to be honest, it mostly takes my focus away from the movie, hearing sounds coming from all over the place. I currently have a simple stereo setup either side of my TV, and I don't feel any deficiencies with the way it sounds or image (dialog is always perfectly centered and clear). I'm hearing so much talk about center speaker this and that and their importance and I just can't figure out what's the big deal. I appreciate that there is at least one person here that shares my view.

Well if you don't like surround even in a cinema.....personally I like sounds from all around....like in real life.

 

[North_Sky]

I have no experience with a Bugatti, none, I've never driven one.
Why would I need one where I live with beautiful scenic roads all around the great Pacific Ocean and the mountains and the forests and the beaches?

 

[StevenEleven]

Great reading on this in Dr. Toole’s book, pages 413-420. If I may abbreviate incompetently: Out of many possible arrangements, multiple studies of subjective preference have shown the now-standardized 5-speaker array (with center) to be a proven way to achieve a highly reliable and preferred immersive experience.

 

[blueone]

I've never used a center speaker in our HT system, I never felt the need for one, and I almost never sit in the stereo sweet spot. I always sit off to the left, and the dialog always seems to originate within the 70" LCD screen, not the tower speakers flanking the screen. So I'm a little mystified by the gotta have one comments.

 

[North_Sky]

Methinks it's a valid self-justification to not buy one.
And if supported by confirmation the better.

And why not have a mono system setup? ...For both vintage music listening and old classic black and white movies watching.

 

[Fluffy]

Well if you don't like surround even in a cinema.....personally I like sounds from all around....like in real life.

Do you watch movies only in VR? It's also images that comes from all around, like in real life.

Anyway, for me the film is projected in front of me, and that's where I expect to hear the sound coming from. I understand why people feel it's more immersive to have the sound coming from everywhere (even from the top with atmos), but for me it's the opposite effect. Sounds from the back or the top are distracting and feel detached from the movie.

 

[XaVierDK]

"Need" is such a subjective term.

It's like surround in general. There are diminishing returns with anything past arguably 2.1, and if it detracts from your ability to nail those three, don't go for a center or surround channels.
There are benefits to a center channel, and research has pointed to it being preferred in movie watching. But it should ideally be identical to your fronts, which is hard to do, and an inferior center speaker might end up detracting more than it adds.

For all their flaws in terms of objective measurements, B&W had the right idea with their center channel speakers. Their HTM61 S2 for example is essentially the 683 S2 in a slightly smaller cabinet and a slightly smaller midrange driver. It's even a proper three-way design.

Do you need a center? No one does.
Are there rooms and seating arrangements that benefit more than others? Definitely.

 

[Bear123]

I've never used a center speaker in our HT system, I never felt the need for one, and I almost never sit in the stereo sweet spot. I always sit off to the left, and the dialog always seems to originate within the 70" LCD screen, not the tower speakers flanking the screen. So I'm a little mystified by the gotta have one comments.

Could be you don't realize how much better it could be because you don't have one. People are happy with TV speakers until they hear a good sound bar. People are happy with a good sound bar until they hear a good HTiB. Those folks are happy with the sound until they hear good little pair of bookshelf speakers with a starter sub. etc etc.

Having a center channel in my system, I can toggle back and forth between L/R only or LCR. In most situations, using LCR is better even though L/R only is good or ok. Often times, opinions simply come down to what people have personally experienced. Happy sound bar owners cannot imagine the need for high quality well designed tower speakers paired with great subs.

Although getting immersed into the action on screen can obfuscate a lot of audio issues, a center channel most definitely makes a dramatic difference keeping audio that should be centered, centered.

Many folks spend *a lot* of money and a lot of time and effort to get the best quality, highest fidelity and most immersive sound possible. 2 channel is like a ball and chain from the past that limits many folks in their quest for high fidelity.

 

[digicidal]

I've had one - well several - and I still use one in my theater... or I would if I ever used my theater that is. Between the setup and moving the stuff that has no other place to exist (don't ask), it's just too much hassle. In my den it's now just stereo. Used to have 3 identical Adam T7V's surrounding the TV and due to the size of the TV (and the monitor) it had to be placed up high and aimed down. Sounded like crap.

I'd say it much more depends on how wide your room is, how big the screen is, and how many people you plan on listening with. In my case, despite comfortably handling 10 or so in the theater... I've realized that's eight people that I would rather not have in my house - the two of us are plenty (luckily we're both antisocial so there's agreement on this).

Wider than 20' and a screen more than 132" diagonal... a center is quite useful - though best if done as @restorer-john pointed out, 3 identical full-range (or nearly so) speakers. Sitting on a loveseat or two recliners in front of a 65" OLED... not remotely worth it.

IMO a dedicated center channel is something you should possibly consider after adding your third subwoofer... if you have fewer than 3 - you've got bigger fish to fry. (And I'd still probably say just get a fourth sub)