Why do records sound so much better than digital?

[Frgirard]

Adele 30 just came out with an overall DR 6 with the opening track being DR 4 which spoils it for me. Can an album featuring vocals be considered "Hi-Fi" with a of DR 6? I would argue no as to me the "distortion" of massive compression is far worse than any issues an LP might have. I did a "level matched" comparison of Adele 30 to some Ella Fitzgerald albums recorded in the early 1960's and for me there is no comparison in sound quality... the 60 year old recordings whether CD or LP are far better. While this is obviously a preference of mine, a human being singing has considerable dynamic range and the older recordings capture this much more accurately than the latest and greatest of 2021. One reason LP's are still a thing in 2021 is not because they are so good rather it is because of the way digital technology has been abused to make recordings that are just plain bad.

The business are nothing to do with the hifi. The target for Adele, the producer or the label is to be audible beyond the loudness war fighters.
Audible for sell.
Produce a music is a job like an other job.
Do like me : boycott.

 

[beagleman]

You must of had some really crappy records!

I think the deeper and more real issue, SOME people are simply much more annoyed by the small amount of noise on vinyl and react badly to it. I have seen some claim they never hear noise or anything wrong with vinyl, and others say it makes it unlistenable.

I used to be extremely annoyed and attuned to hearing any clicks or pops on vinyl, but over the years, it annoys me less now.
And that was with nearly perfect and clean vinyl. Some are easily able to overlook any of that.

I think it is more of a human perception thing, not whether the vinyl is bad or not, although that CAN be an issue also.

 

[watchnerd]

I think the deeper and more real issue, SOME people are simply much more annoyed by the small amount of noise on vinyl and react badly to it. I have seen some claim they never hear noise or anything wrong with vinyl, and others say it makes it unlistenable.

I used to be extremely annoyed and attuned to hearing any clicks or pops on vinyl, but over the years, it annoys me less now.
And that was with nearly perfect and clean vinyl. Some are easily able to overlook any of that.

I think it is more of a human perception thing, not whether the vinyl is bad or not, although that CAN be an issue also.

When I'm listening through headphones using a tube amp, the lack of surface noise in digital makes me notice tube noise more.

Because with LPs, the groove noise masks the tube noise.

With digital it doesn't.

However, with early digital recordings, I prefer it with the added tube noise.

 

[dlaloum]

I think the deeper and more real issue, SOME people are simply much more annoyed by the small amount of noise on vinyl and react badly to it. I have seen some claim they never hear noise or anything wrong with vinyl, and others say it makes it unlistenable.

I used to be extremely annoyed and attuned to hearing any clicks or pops on vinyl, but over the years, it annoys me less now.
And that was with nearly perfect and clean vinyl. Some are easily able to overlook any of that.

I think it is more of a human perception thing, not whether the vinyl is bad or not, although that CAN be an issue also.

And those who are bothered more by it, either abandon vinyl, or go down the rabbit hole of extreme vinyl hygiene... I took the latter path.

But then I am not a purist - Cleanse, then digitise!

 

[Thunder22]

When you first start an album and can only hear the needle pops and what not, an amazing thing happens in your brain, anticipation. Anticipation for the track that's about to start playing. I will never forget the feeling of eagerly anticipating the next song played as I was roller skating as a child and a teen. The owner was old school and continued playing vinyl into the 90's. Other formats, obviously better quality (cd's) never quite lived up to the same hype at that roller rink.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Did you otherwise like Adele? Did you like the earlier albums?

Yes

 

[Galliardist]

When you first start an album and can only hear the needle pops and what not, an amazing thing happens in your brain, anticipation. Anticipation for the track that's about to start playing. I will never forget the feeling of eagerly anticipating the next song played as I was roller skating as a child and a teen. The owner was old school and continued playing vinyl into the 90's. Other formats, obviously better quality (cd's) never quite lived up to the same hype at that roller rink.

I'm pretty sure I'd have been too busy falling over and breaking my ankles to listen to the music

But what interested me was the realisation when I read this, that when streaming an entire album - yes, I do that even though many seem to find it impossible to manage - and at the end it goes on to play suggestions - that in that moment, there's a "I wonder what's coming next" moment that sounds a bit similar. (No noise, except a click if I'm attached to the main system player/DAC). I can switch into a "listening mode" without rituals, though.

 

[mhardy6647]

what is that?

"spectral replication" -- isn't that how we get more ghosts?

 

[krabapple]

Then I will just reinforce that the Harmon Speaker curve (not the headphone curve) is based on a limited data set with very limited variety in acoustic environments.

All data sets are limited. All inferences are statistical. What matters is the rationale for the experimental set up with regard to the research goals. Then the results have to be interpreted properly...including their applicability.

Sean Olive has discussed all of this , fielding brickbats aplenty.

(and I would call it a room curve or a 'house curve', not a speaker curve -- an acoustic profile at the listening position. In theory it can be achieved either by adjusting speaker output, or by adjusting room conditions)

 

[Holmz]

And you are very much entitled to that opinion.

However, I'm currently listening to Hotel California on 40 y/o vinyl, and it sounds fantastic to me. It doesn't sound as good as the lossless file I also have - but it is about a million miles from shit.

That reminds me... I need to listen to my Plimsoles album.

 

[bennybbbx]

a reason can be that on vynil the frequency below 300 hz are mono or with less stereo width. here is a video you can hear how it sound when lower frequency make mono

its matter of taste if you like that more. if like it more, then you can use for your digital sound playback a multiband stereo spreader and reduce stereo width on lower frequency. i also know some people that do it with headphones

 

[MalinYamato]

my suggestion as a computer girl with no knowledge in audio tech> Instead of investing in tubes or vinyl records, why not program an IC to distort the signal the same way randomly and get the same result as distorted by tubes or vinyl or both.

 

[Tom C]

Because that’s not the real thing.

 

[MalinYamato]

Because that’s not the real thing.

who cares if it's not the real thing, it it sounds like the real thing.

 

[Tom C]

I care.

 

[bennybbbx]

there is a free plugin to simulate records.

 

[antcollinet]

who cares if it's not the real thing, it it sounds like the real thing.

You are presupposing we play vinyl because we prefer the sound. Some might, though I suspect they are very few. Here is what I've said about it earlier in this thread:

For me it is not about the sound (although there is nostalgia around that), but the emotional connection. The physical handling of, and caring for music. I have one precious album that originally belonged to my (late) Dad. Playing the same physical piece of vinyl that he would have first played 57 years ago when I was a toddler brings a deep sense of him. It would be meaningless as a collection of files, or even a CD.

Having said that probably 3/4 of my collection is digital ripped from CD. However, I'm still buying vinyl for some stuff, and the criteria for selection of CD or Vinyl is not totally clear to me. It is about how the music makes me feel.

 

[levimax]

my suggestion as a computer girl with no knowledge in audio tech> Instead of investing in tubes or vinyl records, why not program an IC to distort the signal the same way randomly and get the same result as distorted by tubes or vinyl or both.

Besides the artwork and "fun" of playing vinyl to me the main thing I like about the "sound" of vinyl (which only pertains to older original vinyl) is the original mastering. This can not be duplicated with DSP. The original may or may not sound better than later re-mastered digital versions but the mastering of original pressings was often done by a "famous" mastering engineer and it is part of the "original" art.

 

[krabapple]

my suggestion as a computer girl with no knowledge in audio tech> Instead of investing in tubes or vinyl records, why not program an IC to distort the signal the same way randomly and get the same result as distorted by tubes or vinyl or both.

Vinyl (and analog tape) sound emulators have certainly existed for years now as plugins for audio production software/DAWs.

 

[krabapple]

Besides the artwork and "fun" of playing vinyl to me the main thing I like about the "sound" of vinyl (which only pertains to older original vinyl) is the original mastering. This can not be duplicated with DSP. The original may or may not sound better than later re-mastered digital versions but the mastering of original pressings was often done by a "famous" mastering engineer and it is part of the "original" art.

Mastering for LP usually meant compromising what was on the mixdown master tape in order 'fit' the signal onto the lesser medium, and it still means that today, as noted here.
"Mastering for vinyl is the process of creating a separate master that can be cut into a vinyl record without added unwanted distortion. It consists of a mono stereo image up to 150Hz, a tamed high end, and if needed, a track listing that is consistent with the frequency limitations of record cutting."

However, there may well be historical cases where LP production master EQ moves improved on poor mixdown tape EQ choices....

There are certainly cases where elements or alterations were flown in after mixdown, during LP cutting. These can only be captured on a digital rerelease if a production master is used (or someone is able to fly in/replicate those again!) For example, when you hear a CD where the original LP fadein or fadeout isn't there, it's because that fade was created after mixdown. It's up to the CD mastering engineer to re-create it. Doesn't always happen...