• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Why do records sound so much better than digital?

Status
Not open for further replies.

krabapple

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 15, 2016
Messages
3,193
Likes
3,754
Measured performance of CD's and digital technology are far better than LP's or cassettes or RTR, that is a fact. "Audio quality" is a different thing which includes preference and the correlation between better measurements and preference is not nearly as strong as some may think.

You can hardly know unless you subtract the non-audio factors that bias preference.
 

krabapple

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 15, 2016
Messages
3,193
Likes
3,754
Yes, digital audio sounds much superior to analog. I have the graphs 'n charts to prove it. I am in the process of burning my entire vinyl and tape collection and the turntable and tape machines are now on the curb for trash pickup tomorrow.

Please dispose of them responsibly. Recycle, don't burn.

Oh shit. My computer hard disk just crashed and I can't listen to anything. I don't know what to do. I'll be forced to go back to playing my analog piano. o_O

Whew, I'm glad I made backup(s) on portable drives. Why, here's one in my coat pocket! Good to go.
 

krabapple

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 15, 2016
Messages
3,193
Likes
3,754
That can be regarded as a mistake. 12" shiny discs would have been a great format for music.

Said it before, say it again: the 'ideal' physical release format would be small discs + old-fashioned packaging (LP-size sleeve).
 

Robin L

Master Contributor
Joined
Sep 2, 2019
Messages
5,269
Likes
7,698
Location
1 mile east of Sleater Kinney Rd
Yes, digital audio sounds much superior to analog. I have the graphs 'n charts to prove it. I am in the process of burning my entire vinyl and tape collection and the turntable and tape machines are now on the curb for trash pickup tomorrow.

Oh shit. My computer hard disk just crashed and I can't listen to anything. I don't know what to do. I'll be forced to go back to playing my analog piano. o_O
Glad to hear you made the switch.

My Martin DRS2 is also all analog.

I did manage to erase some fifty-odd titles from the computer mini-SSD.

Fortunately, they are all backed up on the tiny Micro-SD chip in my DAP.
 

MakeMineVinyl

Major Contributor
Joined
Jun 5, 2020
Messages
3,558
Likes
5,873
Location
Santa Fe, NM
Please dispose of them responsibly. Recycle, don't burn.
A guy with a shopping cart has already taken them away. I don't know what he'll do with them, but I'm sure he will do the responsible thing. However I did notice a sign on the front of his cart which read "Perfect Sound Forever".
 
Last edited:

Newman

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 6, 2017
Messages
3,504
Likes
4,334
Said it before, say it again: the 'ideal' physical release format would be small discs + old-fashioned packaging (LP-size sleeve).
LOL. Or how about nano-SD cards, or little USB-C sticks?

In fact, to those who feel so impoverished by non-physical release formats, why don’t you buy downloaded music and burn each album individually onto CDs or save onto individual 1GB cards or sticks, so you have a physical ‘album’? Because it would make you look weird? Or is the truth that you are more into the package than the physical playback medium disc/stick/thing? In which case, why don’t you print onto A3 sheets of premium photo paper, the cover art of each album you download, plus each album you save to library of your streaming service, and stack them all on a shelf in your listening room? Or frame and hang them? Or wallpaper your room with them?

What I do, however, think would be really cool and a big step up from LP covers, would be if digital music was sold with some visual non-video accompaniment, that could ‘slide-show’ on our screens as the music played. For example, if the LP or CD had cover art and booklets, sometimes with lyrics, let’s see that included in the download or stream, and have our music players page through it automatically, with manual override. Would be cool IMHO. Plus our screens are brighter than printed cover art, don’t need room lights directed at us, and can be much, much larger than a puny 12” album cover, plus can be magnified for easy reading.

Cheers
 

Holmz

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 3, 2021
Messages
2,020
Likes
1,242
Location
Australia
LOL. Or how about nano-SD cards, or little USB-C sticks?

In fact, to those who feel so impoverished by non-physical release formats, why don’t you buy downloaded music and burn each album individually onto CDs or save onto individual 1GB cards or sticks, so you have a physical ‘album’? Because it would make you look weird? Or is the truth that you are more into the package than the physical playback medium disc/stick/thing? In which case, why don’t you print onto A3 sheets of premium photo paper, the cover art of each album you download, plus each album you save to library of your streaming service, and stack them all on a shelf in your listening room? Or frame and hang them? Or wallpaper your room with them?

What I do, however, think would be really cool and a big step up from LP covers, would be if digital music was sold with some visual non-video accompaniment, that could ‘slide-show’ on our screens as the music played. For example, if the LP or CD had cover art and booklets, sometimes with lyrics, let’s see that included in the download or stream, and have our music players page through it automatically, with manual override. Would be cool IMHO. Plus our screens are brighter than printed cover art, don’t need room lights directed at us, and can be much, much larger than a puny 12” album cover, plus can be magnified for easy reading.

Cheers

The “Squirrel Nut Zippers” released such a CD back in the 90s or very late 80s.
 

NTK

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 11, 2019
Messages
2,708
Likes
5,973
Location
US East
A guy with a shopping cart has already taken them away. I don't know what he'll do with them, but I'm sure he will do the responsible thing. However I did notice a sign on the front of his cart which read "Perfect Sound Forever".
What he's going to do is to change someone's life.
 

blueone

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 11, 2019
Messages
1,190
Likes
1,533
Location
USA
It was the "C" SSD. No joy. No streaming. No nothing. Just the bleakness of looking at previous printouts of frequency response graphs. The year 2022 just turned impotent. :oops:
Uh, just so you know, in the computer industry "hard drive" is a term that refers to non-volatile magnetic storage on spinning platters, and now they're mostly referred to as "HDDs", for Hard Disk Drives. SSDs, or Solid State Drives, are in a separate category altogether. SSD is actually a stupid name, derived by marketing people from disk drives to tell the non-technical folks that an SSD would fit in the same form factor as an HDD. The term "drive" to designate a storage device is also a marketing term, derived from a time when storage could be on magnetic tape, spinning platters, or magnetic cards (CRAM), and a "drive" mechanism was required to generate the movement necessary for the oxide-based media to be read or written by the "head". So a tape deck was a tape drive, and why a CD player mechanism is called a CD drive.

SSDs also don't actually "crash", they just fail to function properly. Crashing refers specifically to the heads in an HDD making physical contact with the storage media platter. Nonetheless, SSDs do fail at about the same rate as HDDs, because most SSDs use flash memory, and flash has limited write cycles, or "endurance", before they cease to reliably store data. SSDs also have complex firmware in their embedded controllers, and the software is more prone to bugs than the electro-mechanical actuators in an HDD.
 

MakeMineVinyl

Major Contributor
Joined
Jun 5, 2020
Messages
3,558
Likes
5,873
Location
Santa Fe, NM
Uh, just so you know, in the computer industry "hard drive" is a term that refers to non-volatile magnetic storage on spinning platters, and now they're mostly referred to as "HDDs", for Hard Disk Drives. SSDs, or Solid State Drives, are in a separate category altogether. SSD is actually a stupid name, derived by marketing people from disk drives to tell the non-technical folks that an SSD would fit in the same form factor as an HDD. The term "drive" to designate a storage device is also a marketing term, derived from a time when storage could be on magnetic tape, spinning platters, or magnetic cards (CRAM), and a "drive" mechanism was required to generate the movement necessary for the oxide-based media to be read or written by the "head". So a tape deck was a tape drive, and why a CD player mechanism is called a CD drive.

SSDs also don't actually "crash", they just fail to function properly. Crashing refers specifically to the heads in an HDD making physical contact with the storage media platter. Nonetheless, SSDs do fail at about the same rate as HDDs, because most SSDs use flash memory, and flash has limited write cycles, or "endurance", before they cease to reliably store data. SSDs also have complex firmware in their embedded controllers, and the software is more prone to bugs than the electro-mechanical actuators in an HDD.
I know this. I'm a non-pedantic software / hardware engineer. More to the point, my original post was written as a joke. ;)
 

krabapple

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 15, 2016
Messages
3,193
Likes
3,754
LOL. Or how about nano-SD cards, or little USB-C sticks?

Indeed, or even just a link to a lossless download.

In fact, to those who feel so impoverished by non-physical release formats, why don’t you buy downloaded music and burn each album individually onto CDs or save onto individual 1GB cards or sticks, so you have a physical ‘album’? Because it would make you look weird? Or is the truth that you are more into the package than the physical playback medium disc/stick/thing? In which case, why don’t you print onto A3 sheets of premium photo paper, the cover art of each album you download, plus each album you save to library of your streaming service, and stack them all on a shelf in your listening room? Or frame and hang them? Or wallpaper your room with them?

What I do, however, think would be really cool and a big step up from LP covers, would be if digital music was sold with some visual non-video accompaniment, that could ‘slide-show’ on our screens as the music played. For example, if the LP or CD had cover art and booklets, sometimes with lyrics, let’s see that included in the download or stream, and have our music players page through it automatically, with manual override. Would be cool IMHO. Plus our screens are brighter than printed cover art, don’t need room lights directed at us, and can be much, much larger than a puny 12” album cover, plus can be magnified for easy reading.
You can't clean weed with a video screen, maaan.
 

fieldcar

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Sep 27, 2019
Messages
826
Likes
1,267
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
SSDs also don't actually "crash", they just fail to function properly. Crashing refers specifically to the heads in an HDD making physical contact with the storage media platter. Nonetheless, SSDs do fail at about the same rate as HDDs, because most SSDs use flash memory, and flash has limited write cycles, or "endurance", before they cease to reliably store data. SSDs also have complex firmware in their embedded controllers, and the software is more prone to bugs than the electro-mechanical actuators in an HDD.
I always despised hearing people say "my hard drive crashed" for any matter of hard disk failure.
 

blueone

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 11, 2019
Messages
1,190
Likes
1,533
Location
USA
I always despised hearing people say "my hard drive crashed" for any matter of hard disk failure.
It's rare, but sometimes HDDs actually do crash. The most prevalent example I've seen is in offices, where people walk around with an open, running laptop containing an HDD in the midst of doing I/O operations. When you put a computer to "sleep" the HDDs are signaled to "park" their r/w heads in a safe, off-platter position, so crashing can't happen. But there's always some dummies who are too lazy to close their laptop and then reopen it and sign back in when they reach their destination. Years ago, when HDDs were the norm in laptops, if I saw someone in my groups do that they always got a private lecture on the topic, where my displeasure was obvious.
 

fuse

Member
Joined
May 11, 2022
Messages
11
Likes
0
Records sound better because that nifty little needle is CREATING music right there in front of you, in real time. It may be following the script that is the record groove, but it is actually creating the music, physically.

Digital is just a cheap recreation in comparison.
 

Vacceo

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Messages
2,659
Likes
2,808
It´s creating a signal. Music is how you label a sound with a particular pattern, but in physical terms, there is no difference with any other sound.
 

Leporello

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Messages
407
Likes
811
Records sound better because that nifty little needle is CREATING music right there in front of you, in real time. It may be following the script that is the record groove, but it is actually creating the music, physically.

Digital is just a cheap recreation in comparison.
No. That niftly little needle is pretty stupid, just going through the motions. It is not creative at all.
Whereas a dac only has a series of coordinates. It has to calculate everything according to those coordinates. That is pretty smart. And we all prefer smart over stupid, huh?
 

BDWoody

Chief Cat Herder
Moderator
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 9, 2019
Messages
7,039
Likes
23,177
Location
Mid-Atlantic, USA. (Maryland)
Digital is just a cheap recreation in comparison.

Do you understand sampling theory?

How many records do you have that did not go through a digital stage?
 
Last edited:

Snoopy

Major Contributor
Joined
Jul 19, 2021
Messages
1,636
Likes
1,220
What I do, however, think would be really cool and a big step up from LP covers, would be if digital music was sold with some visual non-video accompaniment, that could ‘slide-show’ on our screens as the music played. For example, if the LP or CD had cover art and booklets, sometimes with lyrics, let’s see that included in the download or stream, and have our music players page through it automatically, with manual override. Would be cool IMHO. Plus our screens are brighter than printed cover art, don’t need room lights directed at us, and can be much, much larger than a puny 12” album cover, plus can be magnified for easy reading.

Cheers


So basically a iPad or another small display and roon?
 

Newman

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 6, 2017
Messages
3,504
Likes
4,334
…why so self-limiting?

1658671068310.jpeg


1658671168622.jpeg


…etc
 

fuse

Member
Joined
May 11, 2022
Messages
11
Likes
0
The needle is not stupid. And it is not simply creating an electrical signal. It is creating sound, as well as acting as a transducer.

I have no idea whether a DAC is smart or stupid, but I remember a team of robotics engineers saying they felt the robots' mechanical abilities came first, and as these improved, their intelligence improved. Walking then talking.

When I pull out my violin and play a solo fugue by Bartok or Bach, I sure hope you don't call me stupid.

We can get into a discussion on different philosophies of music ("arrangement" genres like classical and rock, and improvisatory music like jazz and some avant garde), but that is for another time (and place, most likely).

I view my tonearms as colleagues, analogous to me recording myself performing written music. In fact, I have learned more about my bow arm from working on tonearms in the past decade, than any viola guru or treatise.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom