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Why do records sound so much better than digital?

Sal1950

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Then again HD motorcyles are among the poorest in the world....mostly just annoying vs performance. Without their special protection a while back they'd probably just be gone....
You couldn't be more wrong.
 

MattHooper

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What part of my statement do they disagree with.
^^^ Looks like I was right on point.

Your assessment of Harleys. From what they've said, Harleys are generally derided by other "serious" bike riders.

But I don't know anything about motorcycles.

Except that my opinion of loud motorcycles is, believe me, vastly lower than your opinion of vinyl. I won't harp on you about it but....South Park for the win. ;-)

But I presume you get the point of the comparison. I'm doubtful the Harley you ride is SOTA, even for Harleys, much less for motorcycles in general.
And in any case, harping on it not being SOTA would be missing the point, just as harping on Vinyl for not being SOTA in terms of technical quality misses the point (of just about everyone on ASR who enjoys vinyl, from what I can tell).
 

dlaloum

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Question remains.
I have not suffered from IGD on a Linatrack with high compliance low ETM cartridge....

Archaic, stone age pivoted arms on the other hand.... - with an appropriate cartridge/stylus, and careful alignment....
 

Soandso

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Honda Goldenwing?
I used to ride motorcycles and once pulled up with my "chick" on the back where some Harleys had pulled over.
A rider called over to us:
"Hey, know why they make Japanese 'bikes?"
I said essentially "Nope."
Heard in reply:
"So assholes like you have something to ride around on!"
 

Newman

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Your assessment of Harleys. From what they've said, Harleys are generally derided by other "serious" bike riders.

There is a theory that motorcycles made in English-language countries were named after their target owners:-
  • Norton: Commando, Dominator, Atlas
  • Triumph: Speedmaster
  • Harley: Fat Bob, Softail Slim, Knucklehead…
;)

Of course, I am being very cherry-picky here, in the grand audiophile tradition.
 

Blumlein 88

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I used to ride motorcycles and once pulled up with my "chick" on the back where some Harleys had pulled over.
A rider called over to us:
"Hey, know why they make Japanese 'bikes?"
I said essentially "Nope."
Heard in reply:
"So assholes like you have something to ride around on!"
Too bad you weren't on an Aprilia as H-D owners don't know where it is from or how to pronounce it.

H-D motorycycles were state of the art........in the 1930's.
 

Frank Dernie

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My recollection was that H-D was dying due to lack of purchasers many years ago, they got a bail out and a complete marketing makeover and newly styled models and haven't looked back since. They are an iconic brand.

One of my old colleagues, the wind tunnel model maker I hired over 40 years ago, is obsessed with them. When he retired earlier this year he flew to Milwaukee with some other enthusiasts and did a cross USA trip to the west coast which was his holiday of a lifetime.

There aren't that many H-D bikes here because the road conditions are very different from the US and they don't suit that well but the owners we do have are super loyal and often wouldn't have a motorcycle at all if H-D didn't exist.

My only Harley possession is a leather jacket :)

I still have 4 record players but rarely use one.
 

Inner Space

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You are the confused one, I'm afraid. It was clear enough that I was talking about "everyone" who is debating whether vinyl sounds better or worse than digital audio ...
So your imprecise word usage causes confusion in the reader ... and it's the reader's fault. Got it.
If any of the above anti-MCH rant was true -- which it isn't -- a key indicator would be the plummeting sales of AVRs. Instead, it is projected to grow 30% globally by 2028. Whoops.
AVR sales are driven by the health of the HT market. Not the (tiny) mch music market, which is why I specifically used the word music - I even bolded it. In this case, despite precise word usage by the writer, confusion is caused in the reader ... and this time it's the writer's fault. Got it.
 

Holmz

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I used to ride motorcycles and once pulled up with my "chick" on the back where some Harleys had pulled over.
A rider called over to us:
"Hey, know why they make Japanese 'bikes?"
I said essentially "Nope."
Heard in reply:
"So assholes like you have something to ride around on!"


I can picture this…
Your pillion rider was obviously not wearing a tank top.
 

Vacceo

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I don't think dithering applies to LP's .

An experiment you might try is taking a good quality "hi-res" 192 file know to not be up sampled and then using any number of free software tools convert to 44.1 with and without dither and ABX them (foobar2000 ABX is a free tool) and see if you can hear any differences. The difference would be noise.
I tried just that! I haven´t noticed any difference, to be honest. That could be that I´m not able to distingish or that my gear is not resolving enough. I played the track at 95 db in stereo in two different systems and honestly, I found no difference.

I´ll give it a second run in the future and see what happens. Thanks for the heads up! :)
 

JP

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I have not suffered from IGD on a Linatrack with high compliance low ETM cartridge....

Archaic, stone age pivoted arms on the other hand.... - with an appropriate cartridge/stylus, and careful alignment....
I haven't either with slippers and a bathrobe. :)
 

Sal1950

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I have not suffered from IGD on a Linatrack with high compliance low ETM cartridge....
None of that has any effect on IGD, it only improves tracking error problems which get compounded with IGD to make things even worse.

Inside every rice burner rider is a Harley guy dying to get out. ;)
 

Bob from Florida

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Inside every rice burner rider is a Harley guy dying to get out. ;)
As someone - me - that actually knows a bit about motorcycling, some of the statements about Harleys are "biased and not up to date". I have never owned a Harley, primarily because I like the upright seating position. Most Harleys use the "cruiser" seating position and have limited ground clearance. Harleys do not have loud pipes from the factory - that is something done aftermarket. Current Harley engines are up to date designs with computerized assist similar to what BMW has been doing for years. Below is a Harley I would absolutely consider if I decide to go for another adventure bike. Pan America!

1659719650412.jpeg

1200 V-Twin with 150 HP and peak torque of 94 foot pounds. Considerably more HP than my 2018 goldwing - the wing is 1833 CC's and makes over 100 foot pounds torque from 1500 RPM. Modern water cooled engine with all the electronic perks you want. The new engines are state of the art. Pay attention when driving around - Harleys are everywhere.
 

Bald1

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If this has already been cited i apologize as i would have missed it. That said it was only published 10 or so hours ago.

Seems MoFi {Mobile Fidelity) has been lying about pressing vinyl direct from tape masters.
How a Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

The article's conclusion is worth noting:
"And Randy Braun, a music lover, Hoffman message board member and lawyer in New York, hopes that, in the end, the MoFi revelation will prove what he’s been saying for years, that the anti-digital crowd has been lying to itself: “These people who claim they have golden ears and can hear the difference between analog and digital, well, it turns out you couldn’t.”


On the motorcycle thread drift, it may be worth noting that today marks the beginning of the annual Sturgis Motorcycle Rally. Thunder in the hills ... HDs abound. :D
 

Sal1950

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Current Harley engines are up to date designs with computerized assist similar to what BMW has been doing for years. Below is a Harley I would absolutely consider if I decide to go for another adventure bike. Pan America!
The new Sportsters with the water cooled engine looks very exciting indeed.
I may have to get a demo ride on one. :p
 

MattHooper

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The new Sportsters with the water cooled engine looks very exciting indeed.
I may have to get a demo ride on one. :p

Ok, it's to my deep shame that I engage in perpetuating any audio forum devolving-in-to-motorcycle talk, but....this once:

As I indicated earlier, a good friend is a fellow audiophile pal/writer and senior editor at a motorcycle magazine. I mentioned this conversation comparing Harleys with vinyl.

His response to a Harley rider:

"Have you ever, by chance, compared the technical specs between a Honda Goldwing and a Harley Ultra? In every category the Honda is far superior. Acceleration, braking, fuel economy, power to weight ratio... and technically it's not even close. An air-cooled twin vs a liquid-cooled six? Aluminum frame vs steel tubes?

But that said, I can see why you would prefer the Harley. It's got that old-time, rounded, richness to it, a feeling of bygone days. It's a sensory treat that, while not the most efficient way of doing things, has its own tactile pleasure.

Comparing the Ultra to the Goldwing is like... comparing vinyl to digital, wouldn't you say?"


:)
 

Bob from Florida

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If this has already been cited i apologize as i would have missed it. That said it was only published 10 or so hours ago.

Seems MoFi {Mobile Fidelity) has been lying about pressing vinyl direct from tape masters.
How a Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

The article's conclusion is worth noting:
"And Randy Braun, a music lover, Hoffman message board member and lawyer in New York, hopes that, in the end, the MoFi revelation will prove what he’s been saying for years, that the anti-digital crowd has been lying to itself: “These people who claim they have golden ears and can hear the difference between analog and digital, well, it turns out you couldn’t.”


On the motorcycle thread drift, it may be worth noting that today marks the beginning of the annual Sturgis Motorcycle Rally. Thunder in the hills ... HDs abound. :D
I have quite a number of LP's that acknowledge they are from digital recordings. I have assumed but have not confirmed those recordings were higher resolution than CD's. MFSL obviously should not have misrepresented their product. I have a number of Sheffield recordings that are direct to master disc. I like these because of bypassing the tape completely and the artist has to perform live for an entire album side before taking a break. Essentially a live studio performance.
 

Bob from Florida

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Ok, it's to my deep shame that I engage in perpetuating any audio forum devolving-in-to-motorcycle talk, but....this once:

As I indicated earlier, a good friend is a fellow audiophile pal/writer and senior editor at a motorcycle magazine. I mentioned this conversation comparing Harleys with vinyl.

His response to a Harley rider:

"Have you ever, by chance, compared the technical specs between a Honda Goldwing and a Harley Ultra? In every category the Honda is far superior. Acceleration, braking, fuel economy, power to weight ratio... and technically it's not even close. An air-cooled twin vs a liquid-cooled six? Aluminum frame vs steel tubes?

But that said, I can see why you would prefer the Harley. It's got that old-time, rounded, richness to it, a feeling of bygone days. It's a sensory treat that, while not the most efficient way of doing things, has its own tactile pleasure.

Comparing the Ultra to the Goldwing is like... comparing vinyl to digital, wouldn't you say?"


:)
Air cooled Harleys are not what is currently available. The new engines are water cooled high tech engines. What you are repeating no longer is accurate. Harley had to change to meet emissions standards and attract younger motorcyclists.
I have one of the new Goldwings. It weighs 832 pounds with a full tank of gas and makes maybe 100 horsepower. It is tuned for gobs of torque and I find the acceleration more than adequate. The Harley Pan America weighs 540 pounds with a full tank and makes 150 horsepower. Do the math on horsepower to weight ratio and Harley wins big. Honda knows what they are doing but so does Harley.......
 
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