Why do people associate High End audio with snake-oil?

[SIY]

WTF does it actually do?

Transfers money from the stupid to the evil.

 

[watchnerd]

REAL HIGH END

Tail up VTA

 

[derp1n]

I saw a shop selling one of these this week:

https://nordost.com/qrt/qk1-ac-enhancer.php

Does anybody genuinely take this stuff seriously? I mean I'm convinced magazines buy into it for purely commercial reasons to inflate the whole bubble of tom foolery that surrounds audio. Shops sell it because if people want to buy the stuff then why wouldn't you take their money. For most buyers it's probably all just part of the cult like ethos of that part of the hobby. Yet clearly there is money to be made from selling illusions and snake oil like this.

At some level, if you're dumb enough to be suckered in by these things, you deserve it. The karmic invisible hand at work.

 

[watchnerd]

At some level, if you're dumb enough to be suckered in by these things, you deserve it. The karmic invisible hand at work.

They'd get better ROI for musical enjoyment if they spent the funds on cannabis / booze...

 

[derp1n]

They'd get better ROI for musical enjoyment if they spent the funds on cannabis / booze...

IKR! Best upgrade to a system...

 

[derp1n]

Or some good acid

 

[cjfrbw]

I think the time is ripe to introduce an audio product that guarantees you can take your audio system into the next life with you when you die. Perhaps some kind of cryogenic technology, so you can freeze your stereo system along with your head.

 

[JJB70]

At the risk of sounding mean spirited, if you wanted to demonstrate why high end hifi is associated with snake oil then you can do a lot worse than just point somebody to the Nordost website where they can find a whole range of hideously expensive snake oil and pseudo-scientific nonsense trying to sell it. The problem for high end is that because the magazines, dealers (actually, te magazines and many dealers are the ones inflating this stuff and are wilfully complicit in what amounts to a scam in my opinion) and even most manufacturers are reluctant to break ranks and call this stuff out for what it is it discredits the sector as a whole for many.

 

[watchnerd]

At the risk of sounding mean spirited, if you wanted to demonstrate why high end hifi is associated with snake oil then you can do a lot worse than just point somebody to the Nordost website where they can find a whole range of hideously expensive snake oil and pseudo-scientific nonsense trying to sell it. The problem for high end is that because the magazines, dealers (actually, te magazines and many dealers are the ones inflating this stuff and are wilfully complicit in what amounts to a scam in my opinion) and even most manufacturers are reluctant to break ranks and call this stuff out for what it is it discredits the sector as a whole for many.

My favorite "passive aggressive" calling out, "read between the lines" is from the manual of my Dynaudio Contour 20 speakers:

"Bi-wiring/bi-amping

Dynaudio loudspeakers feature a carefully fine-tuned cross-over, optimised using selected parts and an advanced circuitry to achieve a truly balanced and smooth frequency response. Therefore, dividing the frequency sections through bi-wiring or bi-amping is neither beneficial nor optional."

[AKA bi-wiring is bullshit, folks...]

"Choice of loudspeaker cable

The loudspeaker cable can have an impact on sound quality. In general, quality cable products will yield a quality result. Dynaudio loudspeakers are designed to be very neutral and thus are not extremely suited to any particular type of cable. The choice of cable is as much a factor of matching the cable to the entire audio system. Please consult your Dynaudio dealer for information about compatible loudspeaker cables that will suit both your electronics and your Dynaudio loudspeakers."

[AKA, we think messing with exotic cables is a waste of time and money, but if you want to let your dealer sell you some, whatevs...]

 

[JJB70]

I'd love to hear the candid opinion of some of the engineers and technical people at equipment manufacturers about USB cables costing hundreds of dollars, cable resonance tuners, earthing boxes costing $$$$$s, Green highlighter pens, power conditioning products etc. I suspect that they find it all profoundly embarrassing. You don't have to read very far between lines in many cases. What is sad is that some manufacturers who really can design good equipment and have a lot of technical expertise (such as Meridian, PS, Naim) jump on the bandwagon for stuff like hideously expensive power conditioning.

 

[SIY]

...some manufacturers who really can design good equipment and have a lot of technical expertise (such as Meridian, PS, Naim)...

After seeing some of Paul McGowan's YouTube videos, I am somewhat skeptical of the "lot of technical expertise" claim.

 

[andreasmaaan]

I've read a few times here about John Atkinson advocating the green CD marker.. Is this for real? I can't find a link anywhere...

 

[JJB70]

I haven't seen those but over the years I do think PS have made some impressive (if expensive) equipment.

 

[svart-hvitt]

I've read a few times here about John Atkinson advocating the green CD marker.. Is this for real? I can't find a link anywhere...

https://www.musicdirect.com/equipment/audioprism-cd-stoplight

 

[svart-hvitt]

I've read a few times here about John Atkinson advocating the green CD marker.. Is this for real? I can't find a link anywhere...

And this:

http://www.audioprism.com/reviews.html

These are quotes from the manufacturers, nowhere (?) to be found on the internet now (after a quick search).

But I reckon Stereophile would ask Audioprism and distributors stop using the magazine to push Stoplight if the quotes were false.

 

[andreasmaaan]

And this:

http://www.audioprism.com/reviews.html

These are quotes from the manufacturers, nowhere (?) to be found on the internet now (after a quick search).

But I reckon Stereophile would ask Audioprism and distributors stop using the magazine to push Stoplight if the quotes were false.

https://www.musicdirect.com/equipment/audioprism-cd-stoplight

Yeh, you would think so hey.

 

[svart-hvitt]

Yeh, you would think so hey.

My point is, if a scientist and the journal of which he is an editor publish such nonsense, trust would be lost - possibly for ever.

But this doesn’t happen in audio.

So people continue to believe that the journal (Stereophile) and its editor deserve their trust.

And remember one more thing: When measurements aren’t standardized, a big portion of subjectivism enters the picture. So what looks like objectivism, can in reality be subjectivism (through subjective use of measurements, methodology etc.)

PS/FWIW: The same goes for @amirm ‘s measurements and that’s why I think ASR should put more effort into standardizing measurements. The good thing about standards, is they ensure objectivity. The bad thing about standards, is they close the door for situation-specific, context-specific subjectivity.

 

[andreasmaaan]

My point is, if a scientist and the journal of which he is an editor publish such nonsense, trust would be lost - possibly for ever.

But this doesn’t happen in audio.

So people continue to believe that the journal (Stereophile) and its editor deserve their trust.

And remember one more thing: When measurements aren’t standardized, a big portion of subjectivism enters the picture. So what looks like objectivism, can in reality be subjectivism (through subjective use of measurements, methodology etc.)

PS/FWIW: The same goes for @amirm ‘s measurements and that’s why I think ASR should put more effort into standardizing measurements. The good thing about standards, is they ensure objectivity. The bad thing about standards, is they close the door for situation-specific, context-specific subjectivity.

Totally agree. I do think JA has kept Stereophile's measurements quite well standardised over a long period of time. The comments like these don't reinforce trust though...

 

[dc655321]

The same goes for @amirm ‘s measurements and that’s why I think ASR should put more effort into standardizing measurements.

I'm not disagreeing with this view, but what would you suggest in the way of "standardized" test regiment?

eg: SINAD, frequency response, THD+N, IMD, crosstalk... then call it a day?

 

[amirm]

PS/FWIW: The same goes for @amirm ‘s measurements and that’s why I think ASR should put more effort into standardizing measurements. The good thing about standards, is they ensure objectivity. The bad thing about standards, is they close the door for situation-specific, context-specific subjectivity.

It is not just subjectivity but also objectivity. Often to bring out a point, I may have to change the settings for a measurement. Recent testing of headphone amps shows this where there are myriads of configurations in a headphone amp from gain to input and output voltages. Picking one out of that infinity as a "standard" is impossible and may create an unfair condition for one of the two products under test.