Edit, never mind, I see my error.
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Why do people associate High End audio with snake-oil?
- Thread starter Purité Audio
- Start date
Maybe Dr. Oz?
To me snake oil means un proven or unproveable when it comes to audio.
However, price point in audio like in all places, seems to be that as folks attempt to make things better, like a watch, at some point you tell time within a billionith of a second per year or you just have the most expensive components inside, at some point the refinement in the actual time telling is so slight that the bling and looks become the separator and the sellers in all these markets (like cars, etc) pour on the bling, the touchy feely, and comparisons among the top show very little difference in performance that is provable so then you go for bling. And if you got a lot of bling purchasing power, well, you probably think the more bling, the more better I suppose.
I mean really, all niches, like folks who adore watches, at some point there are no more features, so it becomes jewels and thinness and what metals the insides are made of and all that, its a pride of ownership, maybe to present to others but I think its to present to oneself that "they" go the best. I mean who does not want the "best" whatever that means to each of us.
For me, an audiophiles dream would be a place to go (there used to be places like this) and listen to maybe 10 speakers and amps and sources and all that and then purchase what sounded the best to you, this could be done over days or weeks or whatever, and for that time you consume at their establishment you rewarded them with paying high dollar for their stuff. In that market, they needed costly equipment to sell to recoup their employee time and stock held to sell you what you wished for.
IF I won the lottery, I would create this place, all blind listening, and folks would come from all over, select their systems, then when I show them what they liked, well, if there was not enough bling there to suit them, well, then always could sell the ultra expensive amp or whatever to make their touch feely side happy. Its a promise, when I win the lottery this will happen.....wish me luck....ahahah
However, price point in audio like in all places, seems to be that as folks attempt to make things better, like a watch, at some point you tell time within a billionith of a second per year or you just have the most expensive components inside, at some point the refinement in the actual time telling is so slight that the bling and looks become the separator and the sellers in all these markets (like cars, etc) pour on the bling, the touchy feely, and comparisons among the top show very little difference in performance that is provable so then you go for bling. And if you got a lot of bling purchasing power, well, you probably think the more bling, the more better I suppose.
I mean really, all niches, like folks who adore watches, at some point there are no more features, so it becomes jewels and thinness and what metals the insides are made of and all that, its a pride of ownership, maybe to present to others but I think its to present to oneself that "they" go the best. I mean who does not want the "best" whatever that means to each of us.
For me, an audiophiles dream would be a place to go (there used to be places like this) and listen to maybe 10 speakers and amps and sources and all that and then purchase what sounded the best to you, this could be done over days or weeks or whatever, and for that time you consume at their establishment you rewarded them with paying high dollar for their stuff. In that market, they needed costly equipment to sell to recoup their employee time and stock held to sell you what you wished for.
IF I won the lottery, I would create this place, all blind listening, and folks would come from all over, select their systems, then when I show them what they liked, well, if there was not enough bling there to suit them, well, then always could sell the ultra expensive amp or whatever to make their touch feely side happy. Its a promise, when I win the lottery this will happen.....wish me luck....ahahah
I never meant the stacks of amps and power regulators, "cleaners" etc.
I meant, I can make an enclosure from plywood or raw mdf, or from ebony wood.
Guess which looks nicer and is more expensive.
Same thing with my diy amps. I can put them in a plastic box, or in brushed aluminum.
I can use lamp wire for speakers, or sleeve the lamp wire in a nice black sleeve
That sort of thing.
sleeve the lamp wire.....LOL
Ardacer
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Big mac on top of crystals. Fluid but firm
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
These would have to be one of the best examples of quackery...
No, they are NOT mine- that's a picture from the internet...
cjfrbw
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I read that some of the expensive watches in Switzerland are made in continuous but limited batches by the artisans, who have to hole up to make them. Because of all the polishing, tweaking and itty bitty moving parts, they have to work on them without coming up for air for long periods of time. The artisans can have nervous breakdowns when they finish with a production run because they go buggy with the unrelenting stress and concentration required.
After reading that, I always thought they should at least have one model of one jewel encrusted, expensive watch literally called "The Nervous Breakdown".
After reading that, I always thought they should at least have one model of one jewel encrusted, expensive watch literally called "The Nervous Breakdown".
derp1n
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If you don't know what those are really for, you're missing out.
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
They are the 'improved' model too (soft rubber), at least they don't set off the airport metal detectors like my first set... Boy, that was embarrassing...
Talk about a thread going down to the Toilet
My healthy trial at removing this thread from Schiit products ...
I believe High End Audio would have made a fascinating sytudy in Human behavior.
I have been in the Audio reproduction hoby for most of my life: I started before I was a teen really ... Now I am at the age where I don't perceive 16 Khz even if it is a 130 dB ... and I have seen changes in the industry from one where performance (subjective or not) was a metric to the present where it is mostly about status. The things that I find most fascinating is how subliminal the status thing is ... This has d has become its main driver embroidered in a search for performance whatever that has become since subjectivity is the name of the game IOW if I like it it is good. And if it is expensive it is automatically good, very good but among those many things that are "good" I got to choose what I find "good" at the price level I can afford ... while dreaming about the unobtainium product ..e.g my Wilson Alexia are good but the WHAMM.. Yes!! THE Master Chronosonic .. The WHAMMMMMMM !!! ahhhhhhhhaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Astute business persons understand this and are making good money on it. Many would claim that it is very difficult to make money in the High End Audio Industry, i will simply retort that making money in anything is very, very difficult ... When performance has reached a plateau , What is left is to sell BS and to spew it by the boatload, going from incredible to outlandish ...
So Yes! High Audio has become Snake Oil pit.
My healthy trial at removing this thread from Schiit products ...
I believe High End Audio would have made a fascinating sytudy in Human behavior.
I have been in the Audio reproduction hoby for most of my life: I started before I was a teen really ... Now I am at the age where I don't perceive 16 Khz even if it is a 130 dB
... and I have seen changes in the industry from one where performance (subjective or not) was a metric to the present where it is mostly about status. The things that I find most fascinating is how subliminal the status thing is ... This has d has become its main driver embroidered in a search for performance whatever that has become since subjectivity is the name of the game IOW if I like it it is good. And if it is expensive it is automatically good, very good but among those many things that are "good" I got to choose what I find "good" at the price level I can afford ... while dreaming about the unobtainium product ..e.g my Wilson Alexia are good but the WHAMM.. Yes!! THE Master Chronosonic .. The WHAMMMMMMM !!! ahhhhhhhhaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!Astute business persons understand this and are making good money on it. Many would claim that it is very difficult to make money in the High End Audio Industry, i will simply retort that making money in anything is very, very difficult ... When performance has reached a plateau , What is left is to sell BS and to spew it by the boatload, going from incredible to outlandish ...
So Yes! High Audio has become Snake Oil pit.
Talk about a thread going down to the Toilet
My healthy trial at removing this thread from Schiit products ...
I believe High End Audio would have made a fascinating sytudy in Human behavior.
I have been in the Audio reproduction hoby for most of my life: I started before I was a teen really ... Now I am at the age where I don't perceive 16 Khz even if it is a 130 dB
Astute business persons understand this and are making good money on it. Many would claim that it is very difficult to make money in the High End Audio Industry, i will simply retort that making money in anything is very, very difficult ... When performance has reached a plateau , What is left is to sell BS and to spew it by the boatload, going from incredible to outlandish ...
So Yes! High Audio has become Snake Oil pit.
Snake-oil Pit-vipers abound. History shows that humans are easily fooled despite knowing better. Those that don't know better are easier prey.
Lots of unknowledgeable 'experts' on forums who don't see their ignorance. Why do they do it? Ego-centric shortcomings I would surmise.
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Dismayed
Senior Member
Let's see, things claimed to improve sound:
Magic wooden discs spread about the listening room
Painting edges of CDs green
Hard disk brands
Cables and interconnects
Cable holders
Isolation feet on solid state electronics
Rod
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I took a 6497 apart and cleaned and oiled it. By the time I was done, I decided it was well worth taking them in and having someone else do it. Working with loops and tiny parts is not fun. I imagine building a watch that takes a year or more like the swiss do or cleaning and oiling them over and over would not be many people's cup of tea. I read there is a shortage of these type of workers, I can understand why. Just trying not to shake takes a lot of concentration.
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Great post FranzM, I share the same life's path in audio as you and witnessed the sad changes that have come about in the industry.
I would add that it just may be difficult to initially make money in audio. I envision a "boys club" of manufacturers, print and web media, etc, that takes some magic keys to break into. How you "make your bones" with this group would be an interesting story if we could find a disgruntled member to come forward and turn "States Evidence" Considering the money involved we may have to offer some sort of Witness Protection plan to get the guys to sing.
Some will never give up on there claims even after most of the high end has tried to forget it. LOL
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/...-five-year-con/?do=findComment&comment=571965
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/...-five-year-con/?do=findComment&comment=571976
She said there was "...considerable increase in volume..." after the application of the green pen to an SACD... Pretty sure I would put the mouse down and back away slowly at that point.
svart-hvitt
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It’s a bit unfair to single out Teresa (though she deserves it too) for ridicule, isn’t it?
Didn’t John Atkinson recommend the magic pen? Better ask @Kal Rubinson if he uses the pen, a «Stereophile Recommended Accessory for the Last 18 Years: Recommended by John Atkinson, Sam Tellig and Robert Harley».
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"When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. "
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