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Why do people associate High End audio with snake-oil?

Ardacer

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The ones who are resentful are those who want performance that is proportional to price, and to cut off price when the performance ceiling has been met, without superfluities, non performing 'fake' claims, or deceptive practices. Good luck with that.

Some people are fine with paying for audio items that are also art objects, as with watches, that they like just because they are nice. I bought my expensive tonearm because I loved it's tarnished brass looks/cocobolo and wanted to see that every time I put a record on the turntable. It also happens to perform to a high standard.


Basically this. Spot on.
 

dallasjustice

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Why does Paul McGowan get so concerned about what others, who aren’t his customers, think about his products?

I stopped listening after him talking about how he eats “healthy” because he’s a vegetarian. That explains a lot.
 

Wombat

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Why does Paul McGowan get so concerned about what others, who aren’t his customers, think about his products?

I stopped listening after him talking about how he eats “healthy” because he’s a vegetarian. That explains a lot.

Your comment explains a prejudice you have re vegitinarianism. Do we dismiss your audio views because you like guns?
 

dallasjustice

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Your comment explains a prejudice you have re vegitinarianism. Do we dismiss your audio views because you like guns?
It’s not a prejudice. Vegetarians don’t eat healthy by definition. You can’t fight evolution.

Vegetarian is an Inuit word which means bad hunter.
 
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Wombat

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dallasjustice

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I can give you a reading list if you are interested. I’ve read many books about modern heart health, cholesterol and inflammation. I practice what I preach. I’ve eaten primarily meat diet for almost 8 years. I got a 0 CAC score, calcium test a month ago. I’ve lost nearly 100 pounds. I can run a 5k in 22:00. I’ll be 45 later this month.

Grain farming was first introduced into the human diet 10,000 years ago. Modern grain consumption is only maybe 100 years old.

If humans were meant to be vegetarian, they would be an anomaly in the animal kingdom.

Eating grains is very unhealthy. It’s the primary cause for the hypoinsulinemia and insulin resistance epidemic in the U.S.
 
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Wombat

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I can give you a reading list if you are interested. I’ve read many books about modern heart health, cholesterol and inflammation. I practice what I preach. I’ve eaten primarily meat diet for almost 8 years. I got a 0 CAC score, calcium test a month ago. I’ve lost nearly 100 pounds. I can run a 5k in 22:00. I’ll be 45 later this month.

Grain farming was first introduced into the human diet 10,000 years ago. Modern grain consumption is only maybe 100 years old.

If humans were meant to be vegetarian, they would be an anomaly in the animal kingdom.

Eating grains is very unhealthy. It’s the primary cause for the hypoinsulinemia and insulin resistance epidemic in the U.S.


Your dietary understanding is very amiss/black-and-white but not for further discussion here.

Re. "humans .... an anomaly in the animal kingdom" : https://www.oxonhilldentistry.com/c...heir-differences-and-roles-in-the-food-chain/
 
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Thomas savage

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I can give you a reading list if you are interested. I’ve read many books about modern heart health, cholesterol and inflammation. I practice what I preach. I’ve eaten primarily meat diet for almost 8 years. I got a 0 CAC score, calcium test a month ago. I’ve lost nearly 100 pounds. I can run a 5k in 22:00. I’ll be 45 later this month.

Grain farming was first introduced into the human diet 10,000 years ago. Modern grain consumption is only maybe 100 years old.

If humans were meant to be vegetarian, they would be an anomaly in the animal kingdom.

Eating grains is very unhealthy. It’s the primary cause for the hypoinsulinemia and insulin resistance epidemic in the U.S.
Getting under 20mins is a bugger ..
 
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Purité Audio

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I remember ( just about) running under twenty for 5k but that was a long time ago...
Inuit for ‘bad hunter’ fascinating.
Keith
 

DonH56

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I usually skip these threads but caught the Yter cable reference and accidentally went to the site. They have this as a description of their speaker cables:
To intervene at a metallurgic level to obtain order and homogeneity of the conductor's crystalline structure, thus providing greater compliance of the music signal within the signal path. Pairing Silver(Ag) and Palladium(Pd) using a new three-phase fusion process is the basic element of the alloy. The crystalline homogeneity of the special alloy is the basis for the metallurgic harmony found in our conductor, almost as if it were a metal "tune". It's all in the process:Well Tempered Argentum Alloy. The result of this development is a speaker cable (YTER) that ensures metallurgical coherence in the path from the amplifier to the drivers. All the processes from the melting, to the drawing, and finally the manufacture of the product, are exquisitely handcrafted at Laboratorium.

All I could think of after making it that far (and no farther) is my grade-school ancient history class, section on Romans, and replacing the last word with "Vomitorium"... And yes I am aware the popular meaning is a myth, but still seems applicable here.
 

Ardacer

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I usually skip these threads but caught the Yter cable reference and accidentally went to the site. They have this as a description of their speaker cables:


All I could think of after making it that far (and no farther) is my grade-school ancient history class, section on Romans, and replacing the last word with "Vomitorium"... And yes I am aware the popular meaning is a myth, but still seems applicable here.
Always makes me smile :D
What's best, for interconnects, many cores and insulation, thickness, only raises capacitance that can potentially make issues (rc filters). Correct me if I'm wrong.
 

SIY

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Nelson Pass observed that high end audio is an entertainment business. That may the most profound thing I've heard about this niche, and if you view everything through that lens, it all makes sense.

OT: I have never gotten the concept of promoting diets with the idea "that's what our remote ancestors lived on." You mean when 25 was a ripe old age?

/lifelong vegetarian who proves daily that it's not synonymous with "healthy."
 

Sal1950

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The first reply said it. But depends on what you mean by high end. There probably is a ceiling for the "good enough" audio quality and auditory illusion above which there's no point in going - and it's NOT expensive to hit it. What seems to be the trend all the time is that people focus on the wrong things. That being said, people also spend an obscene amount of money on abstract paintings that literally a dog can make...

I'm all for beautiful components, cases, cables, enclosures, drivers etc. I'd be willing to pay extra (in reasonable terms) for that kind of "high end".
Make your audio system a piece of furniture, kind of.
I tent to agree even though I'm the audio cheapskate.
At my income and knowledge level I'm fairly confident that my current Adcom amps would be extremelly hard to pick out from any other transparently designed amp in a bias controlled blind listening test. That leaves me feeling comfortable knowing my rig sounds near as good as it could be.
BUT, if my income level was quite a bit higher I'd probably exchange them for something like a Benchmark to at a minimum save a bit on my electric bill. LOL
Then on the other hand, if my income was in the price no object level, hell ya I'd have stuff like the beautifully machined works of art from D'Agostino or Pass. They're friggen gorgeous, who cares what they sound like. ;)
 
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Purité Audio

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This is the high-end, wish my kitchen was as stylish as this chap’s.

Keith
 

cjfrbw

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I suppose I drew the line in the sand at the point where I actually wanted to spend my time listening rather than being a curator or bower bird displayer of a pile of gleaming, detailed audio stuff. It is still a pile, and very flexible on many levels, but I do listen to it more than fuss around on it, waxing, dusting, burnishing etc. It looks like a bit of a mess, with cables laying on the floor, and one amp that I like to switch out has it's ass toward me rather than the brushed aluminum front, so I can move and remove wires and substitute the amp more easily. I have never archived my vinyl, and they sit around in piles that I probe and still find stuff I haven't heard. I pride myself on wires that would qualify as complete crap by standard audiophile metrics, because the sound is splendid and I haven't found any reason to do otherwise. There are a couple of big, ugly impedance matching transformers laying on their sides behind the main speakers.

Main amps are 40 years old VFET SS, with DHT tube drivers, with tubes that are sometimes older than 40 years. One of the things I like about this Frankenstein system is that when the music starts, the image floats in a vast space and seems entirely dissociated with the relative man cave rat's nest around it.

It does look a little neater than John Atkinson's man hole of audio iniquities, however, from the pictures I have seen.
 

Sal1950

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I stopped listening after him talking about how he eats “healthy” because he’s a vegetarian. That explains a lot.
I'm a vegetarian, I eat lots of meat and they ate lots of vegetables.
The circle of life as nature intended. o_O
 

blackmetalboon

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This is the high-end, wish my kitchen was as stylish as this chap’s.

Keith

Never trust anyone building anything electrical that does not realise that UK sockets are extremely safe and do not require protective covers.

Also, I do hope he has informed his mortgage provider, local planning office and local council that he’s using his home kitchen to run a business!
 

Rod

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McDonald's Premium Menu: We infuse our Black Angus meat with gold dust so as to make a better path through the intestinal track and exit the body with the best of sounds and smells.
Big Mac$5.640.45 Big Mac - Meal$5,992.00- Cheeseburgers$2,002.00- Cheeseburgers Meal$4,890.00-Quarter Pounder with Cheese$3,790.00-Quarter Pounder with Cheese Meal$5,790.00-Double Quarter Pounder with Cheese$4,790.00-Double Quarter Pounder with Cheese - Meal$6,690.00-Bacon Clubhouse Burger$4,490.00-Bacon Clubhouse Burger - Meal$6,490.00-Buttermilk Crispy Chicken$4,390.00-Buttermilk Crispy Chicken Meal$6,390.00-Artisan Grilled Chicken$4,390.00-Artisan Grilled Chicken Meal$6,390.67 Premium McWrap Chicken & Bacon (Grilled or Crispy)$4,390.00-Premium McWrap Chicken & Bacon (Grilled or Crispy) Meal$6,3900.00-Premium McWrap Chicken & Ranch (Grilled or Crispy)$4,390.00-Premium McWrap Chicken & Ranch (Grilled or Crispy) Meal- $6,390.00Premium McWrap Sweet Chili Chicken (Grilled or Crispy)$4,390.00 Premium McWrap Sweet Chili Chicken (Grilled or Crispy) - Meal$6,390.00 Filet-O-Fish-$3,7900.0-Filet-O-Fish Meal$5,790.00-Double Filet-O-Fish$4,790.00-Double Filet-O-Fish - Meal$6,790.00

Nuggets-FREE
 
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Sal1950

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Big Mac$5.640.45 Big Mac - Meal$5,992.00- Cheeseburgers$2,002.00- Cheeseburgers Meal$4,890.00-Quarter Pounder with Cheese$3,790.00-Quarter Pounder with Cheese Meal$5,790.00-Double Quarter Pounder with Cheese$4,790.00-Double Quarter Pounder with Cheese - Meal$6,690.00-Bacon Clubhouse Burger$4,490.00-Bacon Clubhouse Burger - Meal$6,490.00-Buttermilk Crispy Chicken$4,390.00-Buttermilk Crispy Chicken Meal$6,390.00-Artisan Grilled Chicken$4,390.00-Artisan Grilled Chicken Meal$6,390.67 Premium McWrap Chicken & Bacon (Grilled or Crispy)$4,390.00-Premium McWrap Chicken & Bacon (Grilled or Crispy) Meal$6,3900.00-Premium McWrap Chicken & Ranch (Grilled or Crispy)$4,390.00-Premium McWrap Chicken & Ranch (Grilled or Crispy) Meal- $6,390.00Premium McWrap Sweet Chili Chicken (Grilled or Crispy)$4,390.00 Premium McWrap Sweet Chili Chicken (Grilled or Crispy) - Meal$6,390.00 Filet-O-Fish-$3,7900.0-Filet-O-Fish Meal$5,790.00-Double Filet-O-Fish$4,790.00-Double Filet-O-Fish - Meal$6,790.00

Nuggets-FREE
Holy Scholy, have those McD's products been reviewed by Stereophile?
 
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