Why do people associate High End audio with snake-oil?

[Frank Dernie]

This is true. But you also can’t ignore the influence looks has on some buyers. I personally think Dartzeel gear is gorgeous. I used to own the integrated amp. I’ve seen the monoblocks up close several times. It’s super nice stuff. That sort of thing really matters to some folks. I’m no longer persuaded by the expensive to produce audio jewelry. But some people are very much in that camp. Those folks are rarely persuaded with even the most basic measurements.

I agree. My local dealer has Dartzeel and it is indeed gorgeous.
How it looks and how nicely it is made has a pretty big influence on me too, as an engineer, but only up to a point.

 

[dallasjustice]

I agree. My local dealer has Dartzeel and it is indeed gorgeous.
How it looks and how nicely it is made has a pretty big influence on me too, as an engineer, but only up to a point.

That is why I think Soulution is my favorite in the audio jewelry category. Its super impressive in person and also measures among the best. I think its more of an exception to the rule that the super expensive stuff doesn't measure as well as it should. The Soulution amp I used to own was very reliable. I also owned the Mola Mola monoblocks. I thought those would be like Soulution in terms of measurements and overall quality. Maybe the measurements are good but the quality was not there. I had to have them fixed once and then outright replaced after a little over a year of light use.

 

[watchnerd]

Holly-smokes, just when I thought I'd seen (&read) every bad example of a clamp being used ...

Since any decent clamp can sink an LP to platter ... if that is your desire (essentially "sinking" establishes a direct conduit for all the noise generated within the 'table itself, and its entire environment) ... I really have no idea why such a large, and especially unbalanced (adding much potential noise/damage to the bearing) is required?

Timber; the lumberjack in me only sees disaster ...

I can't imagine what that numbnut is doing to the bearing....

Scarier, it's apparently a dealer doing.

 

[TBone]

That is why I think Soulution ...

... stole the "Nature of Sound" from Yamaha.

 

[TBone]

I can't imagine what that numbnut is doing to the bearing....

Scarier, it's apparently a dealer doing.

Well, I still remember the carbide ball replacement craze that so many dealers and vinyl-philes recommended as a - modification - back in the day ...

Stupidest advice ever ... substituting a softer steal ball with a harder carbide alternative ONLY shifts the wear & tear from the ball-bearing to the thrust pad. By design, it much easier to simply rotate a ball-bearing, farrrrrrrrrrrr more difficult to repair/replace a worn/damaged/noisy thrust pad.

 

[FrantzM]

That is why I think Soulution is my favorite in the audio jewelry category. Its super impressive in person and also measures among the best. I think its more of an exception to the rule that the super expensive stuff doesn't measure as well as it should. The Soulution amp I used to own was very reliable. I also owned the Mola Mola monoblocks. I thought those would be like Soulution in terms of measurements and overall quality. Maybe the measurements are good but the quality was not there. I had to have them fixed once and then outright replaced after a little over a year of light use.

Halcro also seemed to measure extremely well. They disappeared rather quickly but at one point were darkings of audiophiles . I liked their looks and wouldn't mind getting my hand on a pair if it is priced at dime on the dollar...
I also like the looks of Burmester. used to think they were the absolute best when it came to sonics, I'm off that boat now ... I still have one ... I wouldn't mind getting their 808 preamp if the price is right, meaning waaaaay less than market ... I also wouldn't mind a Goldmund Reference but find myself doing some psychoanalysis and perhaps it is to impress people because I know I no longer care about playing LPs anymorer

 

[Sal1950]

Teresa's long been tilted, well prior to PF. I found it quite telling and a perfect fit when she joined Positive-Feedbunk.
The Recommended Components list was fine bathroom reading, such a great idea ... take many different writers, all with very different systems, all with very different subjective expectations, all with very different experiences, give them all very different components to review ... then assign it a definitive Class X rating.
Borderline stupidity, but it sold very well ...

“Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.”
Eric Hoffer (1902-1983)​

TILTED, I love that adjective for audio, have to remember it. Thanks
Speaking of the Recommended Components list, the also somewhat tilted Arthur Salavtore typed up IMO a good insight and well worth reading. There has been a lot of push back against Art over the years, he has a way of raising peoples hackles. LOL
http://www.high-endaudio.com/RR-STEREOPHILE.html

I also owned the Mola Mola monoblocks. I thought those would be like Soulution in terms of measurements and overall quality. Maybe the measurements are good but the quality was not there. I had to have them fixed once and then outright replaced after a little over a year of light use.

Sadly another example of expensive gear that just doesn't hold up. We hear all too much of this in the high end. ;(
Very expensive gear should

Measure at or above the SOTA in it's category
Be build like a tank, with a reliably factor to justify a 25 year to lifetime warranty
Look absolutely beautiful.

There's no excuse for any less.

 

[TBone]

Speaking of the Recommended Components list, the also somewhat tilted Arthur Salavtore typed up IMO a good insight and well worth reading. There has been a lot of push back against Art over the years, he has a way of raising peoples hackles. LOL
http://www.high-endaudio.com/RR-STEREOPHILE.html

I used to visit Arthur's store long ago, when he once resided in my town. His store main floor was one thing ... the basement quite another, he had equipment coming out the ying-yang, and shelves upon shelves of collectable LPs (by the thousands) ... and near every major audiophile publication organized by year & edition.

He certainly marched to a different drummer ... I quite enjoyed his company.

 

[Sal1950]

I used to visit Arthur's store long ago, when he once resided in my town.

That's awesome, I would love to have a conversation or two with him!

 

[NorthSky]

I like Bryston, Classe, Anthem, Niagara, Canada.

 

[TBone]

Miss visiting Frank & boys at the old Parts Connection/Sonic Frontiers/Anthem factory also ...

 

[Frank Dernie]

That is why I think Soulution is my favorite in the audio jewelry category. Its super impressive in person and also measures among the best. I think its more of an exception to the rule that the super expensive stuff doesn't measure as well as it should. The Soulution amp I used to own was very reliable. I also owned the Mola Mola monoblocks. I thought those would be like Soulution in terms of measurements and overall quality. Maybe the measurements are good but the quality was not there. I had to have them fixed once and then outright replaced after a little over a year of light use.

I like Devialet best. Clever engineering, beautifully made and measures better than anything else I know but the main thing is tha remote with a rotary volume control... I have had one since 2011 working perfectly.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Halcro also seemed to measure extremely well. They disappeared rather quickly but at one point were darkings of audiophiles . I liked their looks and wouldn't mind getting my hand on a pair if it is priced at dime on the dollar...
I also like the looks of Burmester. used to think they were the absolute best when it came to sonics, I'm off that boat now ... I still have one ... I wouldn't mind getting their 808 preamp if the price is right, meaning waaaaay less than market ... I also wouldn't mind a Goldmund Reference but find myself doing some psychoanalysis and perhaps it is to impress people because I know I no longer care about playing LPs anymorer

I bought a demo Goldmund Reference from the European distributor when they stopped taking orders. I have serviced it 3 times in the 28 years I have had it, I don't use it much but it works well and IMO the T3f is the best arm available in theory, though I haven't measured it to be sure - I stopped doing that when I left the business in 1976. I have 3 other record players but they are in storage. I probably play an LP once or twice a month.

 

[FrantzM]

“Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.”
Eric Hoffer (1902-1983)​

<snip>
Measure at or above the SOTA in it's category
Be build like a tank, with a reliably factor to justify a 25 year to lifetime warranty
Look absolutely beautiful.

There's no excuse for any less.

I don't know about Burmester's measurements: Like any "respectable" High End Audio Company they don't seem to care about specs
They're built like tanks: A friend of mine still has his Pre/Dac 870, that was built in 1987 !!!!
IMO they look absolutely beautiful

I, also like the Devialet. May one day I'll pull the plug and purchase a pair ... The way I tend to gravitate toward horns, a deVialet could be the ticket .. If I don't go full Linkwitz mode.

My dream Preamp for my dream shrine

 

[MediumRare]

There R different types of high end customers. There R those into it for FASHION, which is the main group (with the most $ 2 $pend), those into the 'idea' of quality (the 'bu$ine$$ cla$$' all 'just throw $$$ @ the problem' types), & the guys (it's all guys up & down) into it 4 the SOUND. There R also 'Fa$hion' people in the 'bling' category = retards who just want something because it has a (perceived) high price, like the thick gold chains on random street monkeys =)) MOST 'high end' stuff doesn't sound that great, so there is a lot of overlap in 'sound' guys between 'audiophile' & other things, like 'DIY' (build it yourself) & on & on. When I worked at shops most of the money came in from the 1'st 2 groups = the 'snobs' & the 'random expensive appliance' (throw $ @ it) people. The biggest 'problem' customers R the 'fashion' ones who R also 'perfectionist', because they R overly concerned with random things that don't actually improve the sound, & generate a lot more complaints =P

Did you write what I thought you wrote? Did you mean it?

 

[Frank Dernie]

Did you write what I thought you wrote? Did you mean it?

New member just joined with 20 or so posts so far all trolls

 

[BDWoody]

There R different types of high end customers. There R those into it for FASHION, which is the main group (with the most $ 2 $pend), those into the 'idea' of quality (the 'bu$ine$$ cla$$' all 'just throw $$$ @ the problem' types), & the guys (it's all guys up & down) into it 4 the SOUND. There R also 'Fa$hion' people in the 'bling' category = retards who just want something because it has a (perceived) high price, like the thick gold chains on random street monkeys =)) MOST 'high end' stuff doesn't sound that great, so there is a lot of overlap in 'sound' guys between 'audiophile' & other things, like 'DIY' (build it yourself) & on & on. When I worked at shops most of the money came in from the 1'st 2 groups = the 'snobs' & the 'random expensive appliance' (throw $ @ it) people. The biggest 'problem' customers R the 'fashion' ones who R also 'perfectionist', because they R overly concerned with random things that don't actually improve the sound, & generate a lot more complaints =P

 

[DKT88]

There R different types of high end customers. There R those into it for FASHION, which is the main group (with the most $ 2 $pend), those into the 'idea' of quality (the 'bu$ine$$ cla$$' all 'just throw $$$ @ the problem' types), & the guys (it's all guys up & down) into it 4 the SOUND. There R also 'Fa$hion' people in the 'bling' category = retards who just want something because it has a (perceived) high price, like the thick gold chains on random street monkeys =)) MOST 'high end' stuff doesn't sound that great, so there is a lot of overlap in 'sound' guys between 'audiophile' & other things, like 'DIY' (build it yourself) & on & on. When I worked at shops most of the money came in from the 1'st 2 groups = the 'snobs' & the 'random expensive appliance' (throw $ @ it) people. The biggest 'problem' customers R the 'fashion' ones who R also 'perfectionist', because they R overly concerned with random things that don't actually improve the sound, & generate a lot more complaints =P

This is simply offensive.

 

[FrantzM]

There R different types of high end customers. There R those into it for FASHION, which is the main group (with the most $ 2 $pend), those into the 'idea' of quality (the 'bu$ine$$ cla$$' all 'just throw $$$ @ the problem' types), & the guys (it's all guys up & down) into it 4 the SOUND. There R also 'Fa$hion' people in the 'bling' category = retards who just want something because it has a (perceived) high price, like the thick gold chains on random street monkeys =)) MOST 'high end' stuff doesn't sound that great, so there is a lot of overlap in 'sound' guys between 'audiophile' & other things, like 'DIY' (build it yourself) & on & on. When I worked at shops most of the money came in from the 1'st 2 groups = the 'snobs' & the 'random expensive appliance' (throw $ @ it) people. The biggest 'problem' customers R the 'fashion' ones who R also 'perfectionist', because they R overly concerned with random things that don't actually improve the sound, & generate a lot more complaints =P

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My thoughts on the above, expressed in the following posts from fellow members ...

Did you write what I thought you wrote? Did you mean it?

New member just joined with 20 or so posts so far all trolls

View attachment 38984

 

[cookiefactory]

Despite the peculiar writing style, the content is reasonable.