Why do passive speakers still exist?

[MattHooper]

Is there a reason the MBLs couldn’t be run active?

I don't know.

My point though was about the existing difference in choice with passives vs actives.

 

[Purité Audio]

^^^ This post from the first page also seems like a good point about the limited practicality of active speakers.

I myself really dislike any added power cords in my listening room. Much more hassle (and harder to hide) than speaker cables. (One of the reasons I got rid
of my subs, the annoying requirements of finding a good spot for them but also near enough a power outlet, etc).

Is it possible that generally speaking a powered design will eek out some performance over a passive version of the same speaker? Sure. But in terms of the actual speaker landscape of existing choices, I try to keep the actual sonic gains in some perspective. Whether it's demoing active vs passive speakers at the shops, or hearing active speakers at shows vs all the other designs in other rooms, I've had no come-to-jesus experience hearing an active and tended to be more impressed by some of the passive speakers. I mean, for me, gimme an MBL 101 over a Kii 3 any day of the week. I know others would prefer otherwise. But...choice is why it's good passive speakers still exist.

Omnis are good for non critical listening and for parties.
Keith

 

[MattHooper]

Omnis are good for non critical listening and for parties.
Keith

LOL. We've been here before.

Actives are ok for studio work, but don't try using them for pleasure ;-)

 

[Pearljam5000]

LOL. We've been here before.

Actives are ok for studio work, but don't try using them for pleasure ;-)

Brutal analytical sound is the ultimate pleasure

 

[Purité Audio]

I have never found much pleasure in colouration, many do of course.
Keith

 

[MattHooper]

Brutal analytical sound is the ultimate pleasure

Heh. I was trying to come up with something is ludicrous as Keith's response. It wasn't easy.

 

[Purité Audio]

Not my words Matt, Bang&Olufsens from the Beolab 90 white paper.
I agree with them though.
Keith

 

[Doodski]

I have never found much pleasure in colouration, many do of course.
Keith

I have. Cerwin Vegas both home and pro, big JBLs, Infinity Kappa Series, Celestion. I liked them all. All colored in my opinion.

 

[NIN]

Which speakers are you using NIN?
Keith

Ino audio i64s with Ino audio subwoofers.

 

[NIN]

Best in what particular way? Noise? THD? Dealing with corner case speaker loads while simultaneously dealing with corner cases in high power ultrasonics? Power per dollar? Efficiency?

Lower THD at 10khz and 20khz.

 

[IPunchCholla]

I don't know.

My point though was about the existing difference in choice with passives vs actives.

I only have so much grasp of the current speaker landscape, but I looked up your two examples and it just got me wondering about how much of this is cultural vs technical. As someone who has built custom crossovers and is currently in the process of designing an active and passive version of a speaker for a particular purpose, there doesn’t seem to be a technical reason why one would be better than the other.

So far, I would say building an active is easier (if one has the knowledge of already having built a passive) since it is like having every crossover at your disposal without having to deal with all the issues of passive crossovers (size, inductor placement, increasing costs for higher slopes, phase issues, etc.). Plus there is the flexibility of being able to put the amp in the same box with the speaker or to put it outside. And, with the system I am going to use (Hypex), room correction is built into the speaker.

So I guess I am just curious, especially at the price points of the examples you gave, why there aren’t more either/or offerings.

 

[Multicore]

Like 44,100 kHz sample rate and 60 Hz mains power, it takes time to replace these old things.

 

[NIN]

Class D is as good as is necessary and a little more. The latest gen big amps have improved in construction and low impedance drive. It's good enough for prime time... I think anyway. Keep in mind mono block class D amps are putting out heaps of power. So the upper price range has options that are not crazy expensive and will satisfy most all speakers other than the worst of the worst maybe.

Well, Class D can be really good but afaik there is no class D that have as low THD at 10kHz and 20kHz as the best AB.

 

[MarkS]

"Omni speakers are playback manipulations, and if you like them, fine. If not, also fine."

Dr. Floyd Toole, 3/17/22

I cannot trust the Harman speaker preference score

I wish I had good news for you, but the original data file for these experiments disappeared in the move to California. There were several filing cabinets of data that had to be sorted through and either discarded or saved. Mistakes were made. I too would like to have another look at the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[IPunchCholla]

Lower THD at 10khz and 20khz

Fair enough. Since really good class Ds distortion is inaudible to me even at those frequencies (to be fair I can only hear up to 16 kHZ) it is a technical distinction without practical meaning.

 

[MattHooper]

Not my words Matt, Bang&Olufsens from the Beolab 90 white paper.
I agree with them though.
Keith

I have a hard time believing a white paper would say something that silly and dismissive. But, if you say so...

And, honestly, I'd have a hard time taking a dealer seriously if he said that. But then, it's not rare for dealers to offer have strong opinions (which of course
favor the brands they sell). I've tended to have the best experiences with dealers who are more open minded.

 

[Doodski]

Well, Class D can be really good but afaik there is no class D that have as low THD at 10kHz and 20kHz as the best AB.
View attachment 299299

I'm not into a specs and tests debate. 100 W/ch and 200 W/ch FFTs look nice. Class A, AB and D have their places. Class D is the modern choice. More efficient, cooler running, high power and cost all add up to a great value. Otherwise buy some nasty load speakers and big fat class A/AB amp and run it hot and heavy.

 

[MarkS]

Lower THD at 10khz and 20khz.

2nd harmonic of 10kHz is 20kHz, 2nd harmonic of 20kHz is 40kHz. HD at these frequencies is not audible.

 

[Newman]

If you ask that way, the answer is no. Don't ask again and don't put words in my mouth. You are exactly what I was worried about.

You get called out for disrespecting your audience (by refusing to share your list of disadvantages of active speakers because you say readers won’t behave well enough) and your response is to double down by this time making it personal? I am detecting a trend.

Let’s keep ASR open and transparent, which means robust objective discussion is a cornerstone, not withheld and replaced by taunting the audience about its presumed immaturity. That was my whole point, my only point. Asking you to respect your audience enough to share your information is not meant to be as personal as you took it.

cheers

 

[Keith_W]

Is there a reason the MBLs couldn’t be run active?

According to a friend who owns an MBL, the crossover is very difficult to get at. I don't think it's impossible, but a lot of disassembly of difficult to reassemble components is required.