Why do passive speakers still exist?

[Frank Dernie]

And adding on, passives just work for home theater.
I need my AVR and audyssey and the HDMI bypass and everything. Active would be useless in my case!

This made me smile.
I have 5 active speakers, 3 are in my HT and I hardly ever use the others because the user interface requires a computer

 

[Frank Dernie]

you can not easy plug existing active speaker to a receiver, or do remote control the volume and inputs. the kali lp6 i own produce noise when i connect them not symetrical and even more noise when i connect it with cinch. my surround receiver have no symetrical output and whats happen when connect it to speaker out which can reach for 100 watt 30 volts. i do not know. to go to active speakers first step to do is, produce surround receivers or amps that have a symetrical output for active speakers

I have an HT pre-pro which has no amps built in.
My main speakers are used as if they were active by sending the left and right signals to a passthrough connection on my stereo amp, the centre, surrounds and sub are all active and connected directly.
It does have symmetrical output sockets but I use the RCA without any problems here.
Audyssey works just the same in this setup as it would in a receiver driving passive speakers.

 

[Kustomize]

For clarity(s sake, we should distinguish between the concepts here:
- active speakers / passive speakers: if the crossover is active or passive;
- powered speakers / not-powered speakers: if the amp is inside the speakerbox or not.

I thought this was for powered/active speakers. Not specifically active crossover only.

 

[Pio2001]

For the time being, active speakers, with their controls in the back panel and their XLR inputs, are mainly for engineers.
I use the Neumann KH-120 on the pre-out of my hifi amplifier, but I had to build RCA / XLR adapters myself for that.
For active speakers to become popular, they need wifi, bluetooth, RCA and mini-jack input, and a remote control to turn them on/off and set the volume, like a TV set.

 

[pjug]

Do active have any natural performance advantage besides frequency response and bass extension? These are diminished when we have to use the speakers in real rooms and with subwoofers. So I don't see any real inherent performance reason to choose active over passive or vice-versa.

 

[xykreinov]

In a world where amazing active speakers / monitors exist, why do passive speakers not only continue to exist but are almost 90% of all speakers sold ( i guess).
What are the benefits of a passive speaker vs an active one?

Ability to use better amps and, in the case of those with digital crossovers, DSP devices, than what active speakers are integrated with. Until speaker amplifiers and DSP chips, in forms cheap enough to be used in the average active speaker, are consistently state of the art, there's going to be a valid reason for those who have space and time for a seperate DSP/AMP to use passive speakers.
The only benefit of active designs is, in multiple respects for both the designer and user, convenience. Nothing more.

 

[Ellebob]

Distortion, attack time, protection circuitry. When you power each driver individually distortion is less compared to going through a crossover first. Also attack time is faster, meaning the driver can physically go in/out faster as the crossover slows it and there is better control over the driver. Some say that is why active speakers sound crisper and more dynamic. Active is no doubt a superior design to passive. If one used the same drivers and cabinet there is no doubt you would get a better performing speaker with the active version, assuming quality parts on both designs. That doesn't mean passive is bad and it definitely has some practical advantages.

 

[Purité Audio]

I haven’t heard any passive speakers ( including Revel Salon 2 which a customer part ex’d) which can compete with the contemporary sbir types.
Admittedly these offer advantages even over the other myriad active designs.
Keith

 

[Pearljam5000]

For clarity(s sake, we should distinguish between the concepts here:
- active speakers / passive speakers: if the crossover is active or passive;
- powered speakers / not-powered speakers: if the amp is inside the speakerbox or not.

In the pro audio world active = powered, so that's what i meant.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Do active have any natural performance advantage besides frequency response and bass extension? These are diminished when we have to use the speakers in real rooms and with subwoofers. So I don't see any real inherent performance reason to choose active over passive or vice-versa.

There are numerous advantages of active speakers over passives. Whether these are significant or not in a given instance will depend on the specific design goal(s).

Active speakers allow a speaker designer to do the a number of things that are not possible (or highly impractical) in passive designs:

• Avoiding caps, coils and resistors in the signal path, all of which degrade performance by adding distortion (not necessarily to the extent that it’s audible of course) and reducing efficiency.
• Placing the acoustic centres of the drivers in locations optimised for acoustic interaction with the baffle and/or horn, without being shackled by the necessity of keeping the acoustic centres of the drivers on roughly the same Z-plane.
• Implementing complex crossover filters enabling any/all of the following:
  • steeper crossover slopes (lowering distortion/stress on drivers)
  • better rejection of out-of-band signal (also lowering distortion/stress on drivers)
  • more precise use of crossover phase cancellation to control directivity (see e.g. Horbach-Keele)
  • implementation of cardioid radiation patterns allowing for wider-bandwidth directivity control (see e.g. Kii Three)
• Extremely fine equalisation of driver responses, enabling the designer to select from a wider range of drivers/driver properties in the first place.

There are of course many active designs that would be only marginally better than if implemented passively. In these cases, the only real improvements would be slightly more linear frequency response and less stress on the bass driver(s) (both of which can be implemented in DSP upstream in the playback system anyway). In these cases, the differences are negligible.

However, for the reasons mentioned above, there are certainly many possibilities that active implementations offer speaker designers that enable them to produce speakers that have flatter frequency response, more precisely controlled directivity, lower distortion, deeper bass extension, and greater SPL capability than would otherwise have been possible.

 

[pjug]

attack time

That makes sense. Not sure about distortion. I am not sure the actives reviewed here are showing a distortion advantage at the low end where it would most be a problem.

 

[Helicopter]

Out of all audio devices, amplifiers are one of the most prone to failure. Out of all audio devices, speakers often have the biggest impact on sound per dollar spent.

Active powered speakers have not penetrated the home market nearly as far as they will. They are very common in pro designs like live audio and nearfield. There are not even many models designed for home use. Home components are not there either. Integrated amps are way cheaper than preamps and AVRs are way cheaper than preprocessors.

Then you have all the smart speakers. It will be interesting to see if any of that evolves into something that has great performance.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Active speakers actually have already massively penetrated the mass market, and already account for the vast majority of speaker sales!

It's just that we audio snobs here are not used to thinking of laptops, smartphones, tablets, portable/bluetooth devices and soundbars as "speakers"

 

[Helicopter]

Active speakers actually have massively penetrated the mass market already!

It's just that we audio snobs here are not used to thinking of laptops, smartphones, tablets, portable/bluetooth devices and soundbars as "speakers"

Kinda what I was thinking with the smart stuff too. Come to think of it, all of the active powered speakers in my house are Amazon products, battery powered products, or built into another device like a phone or tablet.

I am guessing something like a pair of Echo Studios with an Echo Sub does not sound too bad either, though I just have a bunch of dots and shows and a link.

 

[pjug]

There are of course many active designs that would be only marginally better if implemented passively. In these cases, the only real improvements would be slightly more linear frequency response and less stress on the bass driver(s) (both of which can be implemented in DSP in the playback system anyway). In these cases, the differences are negligible.
.

Thanks for these points. With regard to reducing bass distortion, I can see where it could be the case. But with some of the small actives it seems that they are boosting the bass response and distortion..

 

[andreasmaaan]

Thanks for these points. With regard to reducing bass distortion, I can see where it could be the case. But with some of the small actives it seems that they are boosting the bass response and distortion..

Most likely (assuming these designs are ported, which they likely are), bass is boosted/linearised above the port tuning frequency and then a high-pass filter is applied below this.

The overall effect of this (when implemented properly) is to slightly increase harmonic distortion around and just above the port tuning frequency (which is not of much concern in terms of audibility), while greatly reducing harmonic distortion below the port tuning frequency and (most importantly) reducing intermodulation distortion throughout the whole operating range of the driver.

However, if you want to link me a specific example, I can give you an idea of what's happening in that specific case...

 

[pjug]

However, if you want to link me a specific example, I can give you an idea of what's happening in that specific case...

Genelec 8010A maybe is an example. But the bigger point is that pretty much all of the speakers on here can't score highly without a sub. So then sub and proper bass management is required either way for the best results.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Genelec 8010A maybe is an example.

The problem with the 8010A (if you consider it a problem) is actually that the active filters they are using to control driver excursion isn't aggressive enough.

There's no doubt we'd see even higher levels of (the worse kinds of) distortion if the speaker didn't use any active filters at all.

So then sub and proper bass management is required either way for the best results.

I tend to agree Although this has nothing to do with whether the speaker is active or passive...

 

[pjug]

I tend to agree Although this has nothing to do with whether the speaker is active or passive...

Yes that is what I am saying.

 

[Vini darko]

Why are there still steam engines.
Why is bamboo scaffold still used.
Why do planes still use propellers.
Why are shoes still made from leather.
Ect ect ect.