Why do humans like jazz?

[ahofer]

OK, watched the whole thing. "Jazz" is a misnomer. I get the thesis about high entropy signals.

The quote in the beginning, that "classical music is the peak" of making music more organized is wrong. By the terms he later describes, that would be the rules of tonal harmony and counterpoint (cantus firmus) which evolved in the baroque era. From Bach forward, great music has pushed those boundaries relentlessly. All the complex harmonies he mentions in the video are present in Mozart.

Some famous musician said that "everything is 20th century music if you look hard enough". I offer you Chopin - the one the Barry Manilow copied and audiences swoon over. Check out these 90 seconds of fun.

and for polyrhythm try this

I love Jazz, and it deserves its place in our musical canon. But I think it is important to understand that the 'tension' harmonies of jazz evolved from Debussy and Brahms just as they, in turn, evolved from Bach and Mozart. The persistent rhythmic feels of jazz involved combining folk traditions and polyrhythmic structures pioneered in formal musical tradition.

 

[prerich]

Hammond B3 organs & Leslie speakers were paired together quite often. Hammond being a more mannish name & Leslie being a more feminine (yes, I know a very few men named Leslie), but it seemed to go together to me.
The proper pairing (like a fine wine) a Hammond B3 & a Leslie:

He's playing those ol' COGIC talk music progressions!!!!! Also that shout music!!!!

 

[symphara]

I seem to be on a slightly different trajectory as I grow older, than others regarding jazz.

My father was a jazz musician and music teacher. I grew up hearing jazz and enjoying music more challenging than pop music - e.g. jazz/fusion, prog rock etc. (Though not to exclusion of popular music, dance music). Most of my friends played in jazz/fusion/prog bands (and I played a bit too).

I found that over time my tolerance for "wanking" waned. Which is strange because usually it's people unfamiliar with jazz and soloing who just hear "wanking" by the artist.

But I've come to appreciate higher levels of structure. A sort of basic example is how much I grew to dislike Melisma and Oversinging in general. I like the craft and talent that goes in to sculpting away excess, forcing one to find just the right note for a melody, rather than spring-boarding all over the place never landing on a note or stong line, which comes off to me like wanking. An extreme example in contrast would be something like Mariah Carey's singing, never finding a single note to love, vs the notoriously exacting melodies in ABBA, where the singers were just as talented, but whose vocal acrobatics were always strictly in service of hitting just the right note, serving the melody. (Not that anyone has to like either of those artists of course...just looking for an example).

So it's somewhat similar for jazz. I still actually love playing Jazz and have a number of jazz records. But it tends to be background for me, a vibe. I get antsy attempting to sit and listen to it. Whereas complex, but more structured and deliberate music, like prog, fusion etc tend to glue me to my seat. In fact I've recently discovered the new crop of "metal" music, which is more the modern day version of prog - which has imbibed math rock with prog rock and popular music flourishes.

The level of musicianship, at least on a technical level, can be insane. These guys are practice freaks and it's typical in performances that you see very little of the leaping around theatrics...just guys being pretty chill focusing just on their playing.

Polyphia is probably the most well known band in the genre, and has been accused of "going too commercial" but I find it a very approachable version of the style:

(Their music is an unbelievable work out for any audio system! Same with lots of this music).

Another example, Animals As Leaders:

Plini goes for a bit more traditional soaring, melodic sound, but with some of the same technical flourishes:

Thank you, lots of interesting stuff I didn't know about.

 

[prerich]

In Germany, Barbara Dennerlein is famous as a Hammond organ player. I used to go to her concerts as well. My passion for jazz peaked in the early eighties, my first contact with jazz was in the sixties. I often went to Cave 54 in Heidelberg, Germany's oldest student jazz club, which still exists today. In the meantime, after pop, jazz is also through with me.

To understand jazz or the Blues...you must visit Black Gospel music.

 

[computer-audiophile]

To understand jazz or the Blues...you must visit Black Gospel music.

When it comes to jazz guitar, Wes Montgomery is an early hero for me. I have a couple of records with him.

 

[mhardy6647]

I'm suspecting the OP is an AI trying to learn more about us.

/Not paranoid

Heh. In my case -- there's nothing to worry about.

 

[computer-audiophile]

My favorite thing to listen to when it comes to Jazz is live. Here was once a jazz concert organized by friends at my former living room when it was my birthday. By the thread I was reminded - thank you!

 

[thecheapseats]

...it is important to understand that the 'tension' harmonies of jazz evolved from Debussy and Brahms just as they, in turn, evolved from Bach and Mozart. The persistent rhythmic feels of jazz involved combining folk traditions and formal polyrhythmic structures pioneered in formal musical tradition.

exactly - well stated... when I was growing up and going thru the system- it was mandatory to study both classical and jazz... other than a few early teachers who scoffed at jazz - it was simply necessary to master both...

and Trifonov (in the above video) is a monster player of course...

 

[antcollinet]

I would love to love Jazz.

What is the best way to get into it? (ignoring live events - little jazz round here)

Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions of stuff to listen through.

I'll work through it all and see if I can get a taste...

 

[Emlin]

Sunday is international jazz day, by the way.

 

[Soandso]

Legendary Canadian jazz pianist Oscar Peterson showed a lot of reasons to love jazz writing autobiographically about his likewise legendary jazz saxophonist friend.

"I don't believe that Coleman Hawkins ever saw a tune as a whole song. I believe that every bar represented a microcosm of harmonic deviation and perusal for him. Long before such post-modernists as John Coltrane, he found all sorts of ways to re-fashion and transcend a composer's original harmonies. He also loved to play with time, tinkering around how far into that musical maze he could venture while still retaining his hold on the open doorway to the next segment of the tune. ... [he] would thrive on you laying down the musical collaboration that took him down these pathways. His reactions to your shifting harmonic and rhythmic deviations resulted in an excitement that seemed to prod him even more vigorously into harmonic depths of his own and even more daringly into metronomical experiments."

Quoted from (2002) A Jazz Odysesey, pgs. 148 & 149; first published by Continuum by arrangement with Bayou Press Ltd.

 

[robwpdx]

Classical music spans several hundred years, ever since we could score it on paper.

We each have an auditory cortex trained from birth, maybe some in the womb. Worldwide we have various scale and microtonal systems. I was not in a musical household and was introduced to jazz maybe age 13.

I think you have to start with accessible pieces then learn to more experimental work. That is similar to learning to appreciate 20th Century classical music or any of many experimental musical forms today. The more you experience, the more you also reject as uninteresting or unengaging. Today, I am tired of new age jazz and much smooth jazz. But those are a good place to start for jazz haters!

But if everyone liked the same thing. the world would be boring grey. So hating jazz is fine.

Most people would say that jazz is America's classical music.

I love the interviews with Coltrane and the people who played with him. In his wall of sound phase he was trying to play multiple concepts in real time simultaneously. Sometimes he would take a break in a live set to evaluate what the rest of the musicians were doing. There are also some interviews with Miles along the same line.

I would recommend the film Dingo (1991) a fictional young musician story with Miles

I would also recommend Round Midnight

 

[Adi777]

I think you have to start with accessible pieces then learn to more experimental work.

Absolutely First maybe something more swing, also some vocal jazz, then you can start with hard-bop, and later will be easy

 

[threni]

Absolutely First maybe something more swing, also some vocal jazz, then you can start with hard-bop, and later will be easy

God, I'd have hated that! It's like forcing people to listen to baroque, classical, romanticism etc etc to get to the point where you can listen to Stravinsky, Bartok, Webern. I think it's best to (force someone to!) listen to bits of all sub-genres of a genre to see if anything immediately hits the spot.

I worked backwards - you would not have caught me listening to Sarah Vaughan or Bach when I first got into music.

To answer the question posed in the original post - there's probably as many different answers as there are people who like jazz.

 

[tuga]

I'm a big jazz listener, but I don't really understand the question. Jazz hardly has a monopoly on dissonance of any sort, or rhythm patterns. Why do humans like any kind of music?

Have you watched the video?

entropy - lack of order or predictability; gradual decline into disorder

 

[ahofer]

Have you watched the video?

entropy - lack of order or predictability; gradual decline into disorder

Yes, I have watched the video, as you can see by my comment later. Have you? The “entropy” he is discussing involves polyrhythms and harmonic intervals. It’s not really a good term for the evolution of modern music, IMO.

 

[tuga]

Yes, I have watched the video, as you can see by my comment later. Have you? The “entropy” he is discussing involves polyrhythms and harmonic intervals. It’s not really a good term for the evolution of modern music, IMO.

I missed your other comment. The video is interesting but I agree with what you wrote in regard to complexity in 'Classical' music.
And you can also find a few examples of that complexity in other genres including traditional.

 

[Achim1812]

My first contact with jazz was "Ascension" by Coltrane. Very sure not the easiest step into jazz. But it was exactly the way I felt music has to go in that years. I hate this mainstream jazz "in the style of" till today. Jazz belongs to his time. Reproduction from what I still call improvised music is not my way. If someone asks me to show a way into jazz: 1. Coltrane A Love Supreme 2. Monk Monk's Music 3. Miles Kind of Blue 4. Miles Bitches' Brew
And believe me, I give this recommendation even to people which don't ask me

 

[Adi777]

God, I'd have hated that! It's like forcing people to listen to baroque, classical, romanticism etc etc to get to the point where you can listen to Stravinsky, Bartok, Webern.

Forcing? No, this must be automatic. Okay, so you recommend "For Alto" for the start? I think it's not good idea.

 

[Gorgonzola]

I've always considered myself human, but I don't like Jazz all that much ... SO?