Why do external DACs sound worse than Realtek ALC256?

[LongKick64]

I have an Intel NUC10i5FNH mini-computer. It has a built-in Realtek ALC256 sound card, which sounds better than the recently purchased Topping MX3s DAC. The difference in sound is difficult to notice in losslee files, but if you watch videos on YouTube in a browser, the Realtek ALC256 sounds more detailed and overall better than the Topping MX3s. I also tried connecting a Questyle M15 DAC to the computer and it also sounds very bad when watching videos on YouTube. The sound is somehow bloated, dirty, blurry and very unpleasant. This is some kind of trend with external DACs that do not have drivers. A long time ago I had an iBasso DC05 DAC and it sounded great on YouTube, but only after I installed the ASIO driver from the manufacturer's website. I understand that the ASIO driver should not have any effect on the sound in the browser, but it does! The difference in sound before and after installing the driver is simply huge! Why is this happening? I am ready to sell my Topping MX3s, because I like watching videos on YouTube.

 

[Timcognito]

Your ears need a test. If in the US, Costco does it for free.

 

[Apesbrain]

Everyone has their own preferences. Use whatever sounds best to you.

 

[twsecrest]

I have an Intel NUC10i5FNH mini-computer. It has a built-in Realtek ALC256 sound card, which sounds better than the recently purchased Topping MX3s DAC. The difference in sound is difficult to notice in losslee files, but if you watch videos on YouTube in a browser, the Realtek ALC256 sounds more detailed and overall better than the Topping MX3s. I also tried connecting a Questyle M15 DAC to the computer and it also sounds very bad when watching videos on YouTube. The sound is somehow bloated, dirty, blurry and very unpleasant. This is some kind of trend with external DACs that do not have drivers. A long time ago I had an iBasso DC05 DAC and it sounded great on YouTube, but only after I installed the ASIO driver from the manufacturer's website. I understand that the ASIO driver should not have any effect on the sound in the browser, but it does! The difference in sound before and after installing the driver is simply huge! Why is this happening? I am ready to sell my Topping MX3s, because I like watching videos on YouTube.

If the external USD DAC(s) sounds good with LossLess audio, but not with Youtube videos, it would seem there might be a settings issue somewhere in the audio chain?

 

[DVDdoug]

It's possible that your regular soundcard driver/utility has EQ or some other enhancements.

Except... ASIO pretty-much prevents altering of the sound so that doesn't really make sense. And, I don't think YouTube even works with ASIO so although you've installed it you're probably not using it. You have to configure an application to send the audio through ASIO or the regular Windows drivers and most "home applications" don't work with ASIO. Some audio players can use it, but it's mostly for DAWs where low-latency for monitoring while recording is important.

more detailed and overall better... The sound is somehow bloated, dirty, blurry and very unpleasant.

Unfortunately, none of those words have agreed-up scientific definitions. There are only 3 "sound quality" characteristics with electronics: Noise, distortion, and frequency response. (With speakers there are more). Usually if there is a "defect" it's noise (hum, hiss, or whine in the background). Frequency response is usually flat, unless you're using EQ or tone controls, and distortion is usually better than human hearing unless you over-drive an amplifier (or something) into distortion. Or if you use digital EQ to boost the bass (or something) you can digitally clip (distort) the audio before it gets to the DAC.

Audiophoolery talks about how sound quality is defined.

And see What is a blind ABX test? A proper blind, level-matched listening test can confirm that you are really hearing a difference. That's sometimes helpful when you can't describe what you're hearing, because you might be fooling yourself... It's not necessary if you have an obvious problem that's easy to explain like no bass, or no sound from the left speaker, etc.

 

[Timcognito]

It's possible that your regular soundcard driver/utility has EQ or some other enhancements.

Except... ASIO pretty-much prevents altering of the sound so that doesn't really make sense. And, I don't think YouTube even works with ASIO so although you've installed it you're probably not using it. You have to configure an application to send the audio through ASIO or the regular Windows drivers and most "home applications" don't work with ASIO. Some audio players can use it, but it's mostly for DAWs where low-latency for monitoring while recording is important.


Unfortunately, none of those words have agreed-up scientific definitions. There are only 3 "sound quality" characteristics with electronics: Noise, distortion, and frequency response. (With speakers there are more). Usually if there is a "defect" it's noise (hum, hiss, or whine in the background). Frequency response is usually flat, unless you're using EQ or tone controls, and distortion is usually better than human hearing unless you over-drive an amplifier (or something) into distortion. Or if you use digital EQ to boost the bass (or something) you can digitally clip (distort) the audio before it gets to the DAC.

Audiophoolery talks about how sound quality is defined.

And see What is a blind ABX test? A proper blind, level-matched listening test can confirm that you are really hearing a difference. That's sometimes helpful when you can't describe what you're hearing, because you might be fooling yourself... It's not necessary if you have an obvious problem that's easy to explain like no bass, or no sound from the left speaker, etc.

This is a better answer that my wise guy one. Sorry LongKIck

 

[DLS79]

It's possible that your regular soundcard driver/utility has EQ or some other enhancements.

YT itself messes with it.

Control video volume on your device - Computer - YouTube Help

By default, stable volume is turned on when you’re watching videos on YouTube. Stable volume balances the range between quiet and loud, continuously adjusting volume levels to reduce variations in sou

support.google.com

By default, stable volume is turned on when you’re watching videos on YouTube. Stable volume balances the range between quiet and loud, continuously adjusting volume levels to reduce variations in sound.

 

[JeremyFife]

Sounds the same with lossless music, but different streaming YouTube content via a browser - it's nothing to do with the hardware then.

Now I'm no help ... it's somewhere in your audio settings (Doh) and I always get lost in these. Good luck!

 

[AnalogSteph]

YT itself messes with it.

Control video volume on your device - Computer - YouTube Help

By default, stable volume is turned on when you’re watching videos on YouTube. Stable volume balances the range between quiet and loud, continuously adjusting volume levels to reduce variations in sou

support.google.com

This only applies to longer videos though, and it can be turned off globally.

I wouldn't think that a NUC would have any stubborn APOs to mess with things. But speaking of which, should you have previously set up Equalizer APO, you need to enable the new sound device in the Configurator and make sure it's being used. Might be worth installing just for its ability to have any stock APOs bypassed.

OP, what are you running the output into? All the external DACs have higher maximum output level than the internal Realtek, at least I would think so, so that may be a factor as well. "dirty and blurry" sure sounds like it could be severe clipping. Would be easy enough to check by turning down the output volume, of course.

 

[DLS79]

This only applies to longer videos though, and it can be turned off globally.

My point was a lot of people don't know about it.

 

[LongKick64]

I wouldn't think that a NUC would have any stubborn APOs to mess with things. But speaking of which, should you have previously set up Equalizer APO, you need to enable the new sound device in the Configurator and make sure it's being used. Might be worth installing just for its ability to have any stock APOs bypassed.

Ok, I'll try to install Equalizer APO and disable stock APOs.

OP, what are you running the output into? All the external DACs have higher maximum output level than the internal Realtek, at least I would think so, so that may be a factor as well. "dirty and blurry" sure sounds like it could be severe clipping. Would be easy enough to check by turning down the output volume, of course.

I don't understand what you mean. I connect the DAC to the computer with its native USB cable.

 

[LongKick64]

YT itself messes with it.

Control video volume on your device - Computer - YouTube Help

By default, stable volume is turned on when you’re watching videos on YouTube. Stable volume balances the range between quiet and loud, continuously adjusting volume levels to reduce variations in sou

support.google.com

I always have this feature disabled.

 

[AnalogSteph]

I don't understand what you mean. I connect the DAC to the computer with its native USB cable.

Yeah, but what's on the DAC output?

 

[oleg87]

Probably a case of Windows "audio enhancements".

 

[LongKick64]

Yeah, but what's on the DAC output?

Headphones Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 32 Ohms.

Probably a case of Windows "audio enhancements".

It's all disabled.

 

[Audiofire]

The sound is somehow bloated, dirty, blurry and very unpleasant.

Cromulent, technical analysis

 

[vallandar]

Alright ASR hear me out.

It is possible the PC has some sort of "audio enhancement" BS software preinstalled (basically an equalizer). And it may only apply to your Realtek soundcard, or only to Youtube, trying to make it sound "better". Not really / technically but whatever EQ plus boosted volume is set could easily lead you to hear a difference.

I've seen such software from Realtek, HP, and other manufacturers. It often masquerades as either an app, driver, or Windows service. The idea is that it "optimizes" your sound for certain apps (automatically increases volume etc) or environments. It's also usually garbage and uses lots of CPU (sometimes 100%).

You can usually get rid of it by uninstalling the relevant app (search for Realtek, audio) or if that yields no results disabling any and all Windows services with Realtek in the name (Start > Services > Run as Admin > look for Realtek > Disable)

The last one I came across was called "Realtek HD Audio Universal" service, and it regularly froze our work PCs.