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Why did "YOU" give up the right to repair?

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Bob-23

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At the core of the discussion of the so called "right to repair" is a profound misunderstanding: that you own a device when you've bought it.
 

Marc v E

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@Bullwinkle J Moose : I love the idea of being able to repair but in practice there are consequences that I have to take in consideration.

I really believe that it's very valuable to have the skill and knowledge to repair almost anything, because it gives a sense of value and boosts self esteem.
However, something has to give to be able to repair. I need time, which I hardly have (since I have kids). Add to that that labour costs equal or exceed the product costs. So, from a financial perspective it makes no sense.
And I need the skill. A friend of mine studied electrical engineering for a year and after that computer science. He repairs amps for fun, repairs his cars and updates his car's computer for better performance.

I learned from Sandy Munro who takes apart cars, planes etc and gives design advice for a living, that repairability and reliability are 2 choices and don't go well together. You either choose to make your product bulletproof or make it repairable. I never before considered it that way, but I think he's got a point. You can see this in the design of electric cars that all started with battery modules, which turned out to only add weight versus designing a battery pack as part of the construction like a fuel tank in an airplane. You then get more strength, lower weight, better durability and lower energy consumption over it's lifetime.


Software is easier to maintain and update ime. It is also my experience that macs tend to have a much longer usable lifetime than windows based machines. They don't slow down as much and need less tinkering. I still have a mac mini from 2006 that works perfectly fine. The only thing is that the hardware cannot support new software updates anymore. It's basically only used for ripping cds, so it's end of its life
 
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Honken

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No thanks, XP is completely usable and perfectly safe as it is
Well, not for the average user. With your setup for you, maybe. It really depends on what you do with it. I have some retro hardware around, I don't worry too much about it from a security perspective - but those machines aren't my daily drivers either.
What I'd consider the best "way" is to have a powerful machine isolated from the WAN to do the hard work (in my case, waifu2x-cpp, x264, aom/rav1e) via ssh and a "libre" ARM computer without any firmware problems (i.e. with Vivante GPU and not Broadcom VPU shenanigans) for the day-to-day stuff. The problem would be gaming, but dual booting on that powerful machine would probably do the trick, even if I doubt modern gaming platforms (Steam) can work without Internet.
They do not, simply because the software distribution model requires it. Steam does allow publishers to publish games that can be played offline though, but most use online DRM schemes these days. Really, it is the service centric, apps rather than protocols, mindset of today that makes it hard to go fully libre. You can, but you will have to give things up.
 
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threni

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I can securely run XP-SP2 online without any Microsoft security updates and do it in a Full Admin account

No you can't. You're deluding yourself. It's extremely unwise to use an obsolete, unsupported operating system on the internet. Companies like Microsoft and Google spend millions keeping their current operating systems up to date. Nobody's spending any money on XP. Using the internet with that piece of crap is like wandering around an abandoned nuclear power station with a 10 year old faulty radiation detector you found on the floor and fixed up with sellotape and blu-tak.
 

q3cpma

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Really, it is the service centric, apps rather than protocols, mindset of today that makes it hard to go fully libre. You can, but you will have to give things up.
That's for sure. Fortunately, console emulators, Id games (Doom 1/2/3, Quake 1/2/3, RTCW) and other libre reimplementations really are enough to have some fun.
 

Jim Matthews

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"Right to repair" should be renamed "Right to choose your repair center".

The real barrier is complexity and specialized tooling.
(See Louis Rossman's excellent video series for an illustration)

Since I can't focus on anything closer than arm's length without magnification, I've given up on repairing things with surface mount parts.

I also select my gear for ease of maintenance - amazing what an occasional visit from a vacuum cleaner will do for electronics.

To be plain: the vast majority of consumers can't be bothered and they're probably acting in a rational manner.
 

Berwhale

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I never did!

I can add an optical SPDIF port to an ancient Nehalem computer
I can run a modern DAC on that ancient Nehalem computer while running Windows XP without any DAC drivers
I can securely run XP-SP2 online without any Microsoft security updates and do it in a Full Admin account
I can boot to Windows XP in 3 seconds flat on that same Nehalem
I can edit 352Khz Audio @ 32 bits on that same machine
I can prevent Bluescreens of Death when running Windows XP and have done so for the past 12 years

Tell me, why can't you?

Did you (LoL) UPgrade?

1625914479763.png
 

blueone

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At the core of the discussion of the so called "right to repair" is a profound misunderstanding: that you own a device when you've bought it.

There is a difference between owning the device and owning the intellectual property on which it is based. IMO, the underlying problem is lack of disclosure from device manufacturers about your right to repair. IPhones are currently repairable by independent shops, but you void the Apple warranty (at least in the US). Forcing Apple, to use an example, to enable independent repairs under their warranty may raise the price of an iPhone, and I suspect most people will screw it up.
 
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Bullwinkle J Moose

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How do you give up right to repair exactly? Just buy owning a hardware less than 10 years old or something?
No you can't. You're deluding yourself. It's extremely unwise to use an obsolete, unsupported operating system on the internet. Companies like Microsoft and Google spend millions keeping their current operating systems up to date. Nobody's spending any money on XP. Using the internet with that piece of crap is like wandering around an abandoned nuclear power station with a 10 year old faulty radiation detector you found on the floor and fixed up with sellotape and blu-tak.
Yes, I can
In fact, I DID

You should read my second post on page 1

Malware is allowed in if I wish to study it, but the OS will not be damaged due to the fact that I can simply reboot to a clean OS

The main avenues of malware infiltration were closed long ago

For online banking and passwords, I boot directly to Linux

For online games like GTA5, I boot directly to spyware platform 10 (that is all it is used for......GAMES)

For malware testing and XP era software, I native boot directly to XP

For 64 bit software (audio mostly) I boot directly to Windows 8.1
 

Berwhale

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Tell me, why can't you?

You've answered your own question...

For online banking and passwords, I boot directly to Linux

For online games like GTA5, I boot directly to spyware platform 10 (that is all it is used for......GAMES)

For malware testing and XP era software, I native boot directly to XP

For 64 bit software (audio mostly) I boot directly to Windows 8.1

You're having to boot 4 operating systems to cover all your use cases, including two Windows upgrades after Windows XP. Upgrades that you pilloried in your 1st post.
 

Blumlein 88

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Yes, I can
In fact, I DID

You should read my second post on page 1

Malware is allowed in if I wish to study it, but the OS will not be damaged due to the fact that I can simply reboot to a clean OS

The main avenues of malware infiltration were closed long ago

For online banking and passwords, I boot directly to Linux

For online games like GTA5, I boot directly to spyware platform 10 (that is all it is used for......GAMES)

For malware testing and XP era software, I native boot directly to XP

For 64 bit software (audio mostly) I boot directly to Windows 8.1
So you run several different os versions to maintain this facade of having a safe XP experience? Dude please........
 
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Bullwinkle J Moose

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So you run several different os versions to maintain this facade of having a safe XP experience? Dude please........

XP is SAFE!

online transactions / passwords etc are NOT!

Nor are they safe with Spyware Platform 7 / 8.1 / 10 or 11

My OS and all of my data is safe with a locked down version of Windows XP!

It is NOT safe in Windows 10
Ask anyone who has had their personal files deleted by a Microsoft update
or who caught ransomware (or a wiper)

You need to understand "where" the problem is

Each OS is a different set of tradeoffs

Each can be used for certain things

None of them are good for everything

But XP is end-user fixable for it's biggest problems and Spyware Platform 10 is not!

With Windows 10, you gave up the right to repair it

Why did you give up the right to repair your OS?

That is, after all, the topic of these posts
 
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Blumlein 88

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XP is SAFE!

online transactions / passwords etc are NOT!

Nor are they safe with Spyware Platform 7 / 8.1 / 10 or 11

My OS and all of my data is safe with a locked down version of Windows XP!

It is NOT safe in Windows 10
Ask anyone who has had their personal files deleted by a Microsoft update
or who caught ransomware (or a wiper)

You need to understand "where" the problem is

Each OS is a different set of tradeoffs

Each can be used for certain things

None of them are good for everything

But XP is end-user fixable for it's biggest problems and Spyware Platform 10 is not!

With Windows 10, you gave up the right to repair it

Why did you give up the right to repair your OS?

That is, after all, the topic of these posts
But you run those other Spyware platforms yourself.
 

blueone

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Well unless you have the source code to XP then you also gave up the right to repair your OS.

Agree; Microsoft stopped supporting XP in 2014. The internet world equivalent of a 1962 Chevrolet pickup truck.
 

Trell

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XP is SAFE!

online transactions / passwords etc are NOT!

Nor are they safe with Spyware Platform 7 / 8.1 / 10 or 11

My OS and all of my data is safe with a locked down version of Windows XP!

It is NOT safe in Windows 10
Ask anyone who has had their personal files deleted by a Microsoft update
or who caught ransomware (or a wiper)

You need to understand "where" the problem is

Each OS is a different set of tradeoffs

Each can be used for certain things

None of them are good for everything

But XP is end-user fixable for it's biggest problems and Spyware Platform 10 is not!

With Windows 10, you gave up the right to repair it

Why did you give up the right to repair your OS?

That is, after all, the topic of these posts

Is your BIOS safe? Reinstalling Windows XP will not help with a compromised BIOS.
 

threni

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