Why Audiophiles Are Shopping for Vintage Turntables

[gamerpaddy]

Get an old car with a multiple carburetors, points ignition, plugs that need to be gapped and all the rest.

im probably in the worst country to own and work on a old cars.
im actually restoring and repairing old hifi, this way i come across things i could never afford if it was new. and make a buck to get the nice stuff.

 

[Snoopy]

Leave music listening to the best quality, highest fidelity available, digital.

And what do you suggest someone does if not everything is available as digital music ? Surely that music is not worth it to begin with in that case ?

the older folks probably don’t even hear the highest fidelity anymore anyway

 

[Sal1950]

And what do you suggest someone does if not everything is available as digital music ?

Well personally I've never run into something unavailable digitally that I wanted. Right now my local library contains over 4000 albums in 16/44.1 or better resolution, 500 or so in 4, 5.1, and Immersive formats, of the music I love.
So that said, of the millions and millions and millions of digital recordings available, lifetimes and lifetimes of listening hours, can't you do without one or two? I just read that Dan Mackta, Qobuz managing director says they add about 10,000 albums, 100,000 tracks, each WEEK to their library.
Of course if your pockets are so deep you can afford to spend thousands + of dollars, to play a handful of albums in 1960s quality, God Bless.

the older folks probably don’t even hear the highest fidelity anymore anyway

At 75 I may not hear much beyond 12khz or so any more, but bass and the midrange clarity and inner detail of digital remains. and that's were the music lives.

Plus I absolutely can hear vinyls snap-crackle-pop, surface noise, inner groove distortion, mono'd bass and the rest just as perfectly as I did at 25.

 

[Ralf Stocker]

My records and cassettes have been lying around unused for 30 years. Many people love horses. Nevertheless, they don't ride them to work and take the car.

 

[Snoopy]

Well personally I've never run into something unavailable digitally that I wanted.

It was the only reason why I even got a turntable sometimes there was a limited run of a CD or a print on demand CD but I’m not going to pay 90 bucks for a 15 year old used CD if I can get a NM- original pressing LP for much less.

But glad that everything you like is available in the format that you prefer. Maybe you are right and everybody should just listen to the stuff that you like

 

[Toni71]

I've bought a brown SL1200MK4, because it also looks nice on the furniture. Sometimes, there is a record playing, mostly some Soul music, my wife likes to listen to that kind of music. She has nothing with digital music. She is 45, growing up rather poor. There was not much music in that environment. She had some tapes with music. Certainly not a turntable.

I love that she enjoys this. Each has its own preferences.

 

[Waxx]

I got two turntables that work, and one broken. They are all vintage Technics, with the most recent one is a SL1200MKII from 2008, I also got a 1982 SL-D202 that is broken and a 1976 SL1500 (MKI) that is in perfect state. I use them because they are great sounding, very ruggged, and new equal turntables (SL1200G) cost a lot more than i paid for it. The SL-D202 is a bit worn out, but that was a cheap one from the 1980's and is still repairable (i just lack the time). The others are original and never break down. The SL1500 was never restored but still is within spec. I brought it to a specialist a while ago (reputed to restore Technics turntables) and he said he had nothing to do at it, as it was almost newstate.

I had a pair of 1985's SL1200's that i used and abused for +20 years (they were used in a lot of illegal raves and so) before they died electronicly. I still could sell the shell and tonearm for 100€ each, even if they were dead. But that dead was immenent, they were abused a lot. I don't know an other audio device that would withstand that many years fo abuse in often very rough (dusty, wet, cold) circumstances, but these are like thanks.

I had some newer turntables in the past, from the known brands, and they were all inferior to this one so they got sold again.

And yes, digital is better pure on sound (technically), but on entertainment level absolutly not for me.

 

[AJM1981]

I'd swear not to buy a record player before as I already owned one in the past, but found some old records back on the attic and was like 'why not' and went for a good functioning Sansui P1000. Just because it was a fairly decent player for a low price. I own about close to 10 or 12 records and not a whole library so spending a lot on a record player would be overkill.

I think that a record player is one of those pieces of gear (more even so than amps or CD-players, let along digital files and streaming) in which technique actually gives sonically better results. But trying to get even better than best out of a kind of handicapped medium like vinyl is a hobby that is not where I will go. Same as searching for the best cassetteplayer and the best cassettetypes (yes they exist) to still know the medium is outdated..

pros
- the feel with the content
- the idea that the artist reviewed a similar copy, maybe even played one at home.
- collections
- the artwork and documentation
- the rituals of handling the content (most likely)
- the chance of finding an obscure Jazz album that has not been released on spotify or CD

cons
- highly static records
- the 'stuck in the groove due a later discovered scratch' times.
- wear over time, like shoes
- it is..still... plastic.

 

[Petrushka]

What is the ultimate middle finger, I wonder.

Eight track?

 

[egellings]

A highly opinionated article, to say the least:

"Listening to records is the penultimate middle finger to the digital age; one where human beings text family and friends in the same room rather than talk to them, and where people flip through music selections on their smartphones with the same level of attention that they display when selecting a brand of cereal at the grocery store. Listening to music on a turntable requires paying attention to the process of playback, and the music itself; something that is seemingly quite difficult for most people these days."

Provocative comments aside, the rest is about the ever-pricier resto biz:

https://gearpatrol.com/2020/01/14/why-audiophiles-shop-for-vintage-turntables/




(Full disclosure: my TT happens to be a restored vintage one, but not one of the brands mentioned in this article)

My TT, a Thorens TD-125, is also a restored one, by me. I bought it at a rummage sale minus an arm for cheap. The motor, a low voltage one, is powered by a Wien Bridge oscillator driving a small power amplifier, and that needed the usual restoration-'lytic and such.

 

[Sal1950]

What is the ultimate middle finger, I wonder.

Not sure, but the vinyl renaissance is the ultimate definition of Audiophool.

 

[levimax]

Not sure, but the vinyl renaissance is the ultimate definition of Audiophool.

Hi Sal, I saw this record the other day and thought of you.

 

[Sal1950]

Hi Sal, I saw this record the other day and thought of you.

Thanks a ton, I'm saving that to my vinyl jpg file.

 

[MattHooper]

Congratulations on the new turntable!

I think that a record player is one of those pieces of gear (more even so than amps or CD-players, let along digital files and streaming) in which technique actually gives sonically better results. But trying to get even better than best out of a kind of handicapped medium like vinyl is a hobby that is not where I will go.

Totally understandable.

In my case, I enjoy playing records so much for a wide variety of reasons, that I find it worth it to maximize the sound quality and get everything I can out of the medium.

 

[bagwell359]

I was deeply into turntables for 40 years starting with Dual 512, and moving on to Ariston RD-11S, Kenwood KD-500, Oracle Delpj III, VPI Mk IV, VPI TNT Jr, and tone arms - SME 1, FR-64, Souther SLA-3, and cartridges from ADC XLM thru to Lyra Parnassus, Shelter 501, etc. and the Koestsu Rosewood Sig. ARC SP-15 for the phono, Pass Ono, etc.

I hated early digital - TELARC vinyl, early CD's and players. Finally in Y2K heard digital sound like music, and in 2015 sold off my 12k vinyls and all the playback because DACs and newer/better mastering made it on average better, and it doesn't wear out from play or take up all of a 12x11 room with all the fidgeting with zerostats, carbon fibre brushes, fluxbusters, etc.. With my linear arm (and VPI HW-17 record cleaner) I could play a LP 20 times and it still seemed mint, but most people have pivot arms, and even aligned properly are cutting into the vinyl at most parts of the disc. You're killing your investment, or just collecting. It's a cult and I was for sure a member. Glad to be done with it, and with my Gungnir 2 in hand would never bother with it again. Not to mention it would cost ridiculous amounts of time and money to recreate my collection full of Shaded Dogs and rare labels, never mind an unpeeled and peeled Beatles butcher covers.

 

[MattHooper]

With my linear arm (and VPI HW-17 record cleaner) I could play a LP 20 times and it still seemed mint, but most people have pivot arms, and even aligned properly are cutting into the vinyl at most parts of the disc. You're killing your investment, or just collecting.

My turntable has a 12 inch pivot tone arm, and I’ve played plenty of my records more times than I can remember, and if there’s been degradation, it’s been so little that I don’t notice it. These records still play clear, clean, and beautiful sounding.
There’s a YouTube video in which somebody tested the claim that cheap turntables ruin records, so he played a new record on both a very cheap Crosley type turntable and a high-quality turntable. He played the record 100 times in a row, recording the output from each player and then shorter comparison of the very first play versus the hundredth play for both turntables, as well as showing the differences in the waveforms on a DAW.
The crappy turntable did degrade the sound.
But after playing the record 100 times on the good turntable it sounded virtually the same, and the waveform (which also showed tick and pops) showed very little if any relevant change.

So far that’s in line with my experience playing records many times on my own turntable.

It's a cult and I was for sure a member.

Glad you made it out of a cult!

Fortunately, one doesn’t need to join a cult to enjoy playing records.

I never really had a problem with digital sound myself. I ditched records early on for CD in the 80s. And CDs were my happy playback format on my high end systems through the 90s and 2000s until I ripped my CDs and added streaming. CDs always sounded amazing to me. I also happen to like the sound of vinyl.

 

[AJM1981]

Congratulations on the new turntable!

Thanks!

Totally understandable.

In my case, I enjoy playing records so much for a wide variety of reasons, that I find it worth it to maximize the sound quality and get everything I can out of the medium.

That's the way to go, and I understand that. There is much more theory and reality that goes into getting the analog experience right, maybe a lot even apart from sound

I doubted about a second hand Thorens but it was over 200 euros and budget wise it could have been, but it did not seem to be in balance with its application and the chance of hidden costs.

I did not really want to go into gambling on entry models either. The Sansui model seemed a good choice in user reviews, not one of the top class acts probably, but decent for far under the average price normally been asked for that model on the market. Couldnt really go wrong.

Having memories from playing records on good hi-fi, I was a bit sceptical about some claims online that records sound a lot warmer and give more of a 'wow' effect.

In my case a well new pressed record sounds almost identical to my ears as its digital counterpart. Not in the sense that I am trying to attempt to split hairs in critical listening. (maybe some minor accent differences in a remaster are noticable) It might have something to do with the methods of mastering throughout certain decades. Maybe also the phono stage pre-amp contrast to certain amps' standard auxilary inputs play a role. But there is no science to that last comment, just a thought.

Overall I am really ok with the purchase, I dont even think I would have heard the difference between the Sansui player and a Thorens, and my gear is quite decent in a well treated room, though when both would be the same price, would go for the latter. Those are little works of art

 

[AJM1981]

What is the ultimate middle finger, I wonder.

 

[DSJR]

I got two turntables that work, and one broken. They are all vintage Technics, with the most recent one is a SL1200MKII from 2008, I also got a 1982 SL-D202 that is broken and a 1976 SL1500 (MKI) that is in perfect state. I use them because they are great sounding, very ruggged, and new equal turntables (SL1200G) cost a lot more than i paid for it. The SL-D202 is a bit worn out, but that was a cheap one from the 1980's and is still repairable (i just lack the time). The others are original and never break down. The SL1500 was never restored but still is within spec. I brought it to a specialist a while ago (reputed to restore Technics turntables) and he said he had nothing to do at it, as it was almost newstate.

I had a pair of 1985's SL1200's that i used and abused for +20 years (they were used in a lot of illegal raves and so) before they died electronicly. I still could sell the shell and tonearm for 100€ each, even if they were dead. But that dead was immenent, they were abused a lot. I don't know an other audio device that would withstand that many years fo abuse in often very rough (dusty, wet, cold) circumstances, but these are like thanks.

I had some newer turntables in the past, from the known brands, and they were all inferior to this one so they got sold again.

And yes, digital is better pure on sound (technically), but on entertainment level absolutly not for me.

I have an SL1500 here in storage for a pal of mine. Used like a modern Rega it's superb - carefully sited, used with soundboard-lid off and in this case, a cork mat on top of the rubber one to better VTA-match the modern Technics-style headshell it has as an extra to the chunky original which is there still. The main switch and four pots can go noisy (two coarse ones on the board and the two 'user' pitch adjustors on the deck plate) and th ermain bearing needs a drop of clingy slideway-style oil if the original tube it came with has gone. The bearing sleeve is brass, so not as 'fussy' as sintered types are and the thrust pad (a plastic of some sort) seems to last very well. The arm can have some bearing slop, but to minimise this (I've had two samples exactly the same), needs a very gentle hand and suitable tools to safely unlock, adjust and re-lock the bearings.

Apologies for the above, but vinyl playback is such a subjective thing that anything to get these mechanical vibration-reading devices to do the job better can only help, surely?

 

[AJM1981]

Isn't the best often underated thing about vinyl the fact that every sleeve is like a self contained document. The library factor, as in there is a story about the album ánd it also contains a disc.. as a bonus .

CD's also count, but were almost a thing for the magnifying glass with their compressed booklets.