Why Audiophiles Are Shopping for Vintage Turntables

[Frank Dernie]

In the late '50s David Hafler imported B&O cartridges to the US. Even then the company was using the integrated plug in approach. Unusual for a 'magnetic' cartridge, Bang and Olufsen styli were not user replaceable.

An outfit called Soundsmith supplies updated replacement cartridges in varying levels of sophistication--said to be licensed by B&O. Because of this, B&O turntable owners are in better shape than owners of Shure, Stanton, ADC, Empire and many other cartridge makers.

Natural Oak is the one of the worst woods to frame an upscale product, from a cosmetic standpoint. They could have stained and lacquered it at least.

Indeed but the Soundsmith prices are delusional.
There was an official rebuilder in Germany who charged a tiny fraction of Soundsmith prices but he has retired .

 

[Ken1951]

Surprised they're not using something like walnut or cherry, which in this application is going to look much nicer than oak. Quarter-sawn oak is beautiful, but this application doesn't have enough real estate to show it.

I sold B&O tables way back in the day. They were a touch finicky, looked beautiful and did a decent job of tracking. The tables and cartridges sounded good as well. We just tried not to sell them to people who bought ESS AMT-1s as that was not a great combination.

 

[audiopile]

RE; Delusional prices
Most of us who have been into this hobby/obsession for decades look at prices today and think WE are delusional -cables that cost more than my work van ??? I've recommended Soundsmith B&O replacement cartridges to a number of my old customers who wanted to keep their B&O turntables running and making music -they have been happy with these cartridges -I've only owned one of Peter's replacement B&O's -it was a couple of spots up in his line and sounded very good and I really appreciated being able to kick back and enjoy my music on a automatic turntable. Own ,use and enjoy a couple of his 1/2" mount versions of these cartridges and they are wonderful cartridges. Soundsmith gets knocked for their prices compared to the price that B&O sold the originals for in 1990 ? . I suggest that you look at Soundsmith production realities : a.) front end investment in recreating a product that was totaly abandoned by B&O - no machinery ,no fixtures ,no engineering data.nuthin -reverse engineering a mechanical device is a lot haarder to get to that first prototype stage than it is for most electronics -lots of very skilled time and money are invested. b.) quantity manufacturing is not going to get you anywhere near the kind of numbers you need for that to help out cost/retail in today's world on a very limited market. c.) Suggest you compare the sound or measured performance of the Soundsmith cartridges to other cartridges available NEW at the same price range. IMHO -Peter has nothing to be ashashmed of about these productsor or their retail price.

 

[avanti1960]

I find it sad all the lies and BS that's come out of this vinyl thing. It seems a day doesn't go by that I don't hear on TV or read on the net remarks along the lines of "he must be a real audiophile, he has a TT, or vinyl still provides the best sound" You see it everywhere in todays movies and TV shows. Yes this is from people who know nothing about sound or people that in one way or another stands to make a bunch of money from the vinyl market. Its very disturbing to me that this group of people are giving the finger to the many engineers and others that worked so hard to develop digital recording, optical drives, and all the rest to bring us this SOTA system. Personally, from the day I got my first CD player and played Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms, I couldn't wait for the day that I could replace all my LP's with CDs. In the mid 80s I never dreamed of the nirvana we live in today with all my music (much in 5.1 multich) as files on my computer, or better yet, for a small monthly fee, access to just about any recording ever made in redbook or better digital streaming. All the blood, sweat, and tears that has gone into todays digital music age and for the love of money people spread lies and mis-representations to go back to dragging a rock thru a ditch.
I so fondly remember my homeys in Chicago on 1979 "Records were made to be broken" LOL

disco records for sure.
i don't think the misrepresentation of the quality of vinyl is widely intentional though, it seems mainly a product of misinformation.
for me my vinyl system does sound excellent but it was pricey. there are areas where even the worse sounding digital system sounds better than vinyl- ultra low noise, huge dynamic range, wide linear bandwidth. however vinyl has an inherent smoothness in the sound that gives it an unmistakably pleasing presentation.

 

[MattHooper]

disco records for sure.

Hey, I resemble that comment! ;-)

I like disco (and funk) and have actually bought a ton of disco records recently, many obscure. I love that old combo of dance beats with lush strings and horn sections. They are a blast, and also a number have surprisingly excellent sound quality.

Now, if we are talking about blowing up Tom Waits records, I'm all for that.

 

[Robin L]

Now, if we are talking about blowing up Tom Waits records, I'm all for that.

They represent an otherwise unattainable standard of audio excellence.

 

[anmpr1]

Well, it finally happened. My 1977 Dual 704 stopped this morning, giving me that unmistakable whiff of burnt circuit board as it said farewell. I guess it's not too bad for 43 years of service. I might (but probably won't) take it apart to see. You get to the point with this old stuff where you say, 'what's the point'?

So, my current and on-going scorecard is:

Garrard Z-100 --> 48 years and still going strong, as the day it was new.
Technics SL-1100a --> 45 years and still runs as new.
Technics SL-1200 Mk 5 --> 15 years in service. The youngster of the group.

 

[BDWoody]

Well, it finally happened. My 1977 Dual 704 stopped this morning, giving me that unmistakable whiff of burnt circuit board as it said farewell. I guess it's not too bad for 43 years of service.

I'm sorry for your loss...

It's always too soon.

 

[anmpr1]

I'm sorry for your loss... It's always too soon.

Thanks. But with enough liquid refreshement, I feel I have what it takes to deal with the loss!

 

[levimax]

Well, it finally happened. My 1977 Dual 704 stopped this morning, giving me that unmistakable whiff of burnt circuit board as it said farewell. I guess it's not too bad for 43 years of service. I might (but probably won't) take it apart to see. You get to the point with this old stuff where you say, 'what's the point'?

So, my current and on-going scorecard is:

Garrard Z-100 --> 48 years and still going strong, as the day it was new.
Technics SL-1100a --> 45 years and still runs as new.
Technics SL-1200 Mk 5 --> 15 years in service. The youngster of the group.

No sense trying to fix it.... if it helps ease the pain, in addition to the liquid refreshments, you can send it to me and I will take care of the rest.

 

[Ken1951]

Well, it finally happened. My 1977 Dual 704 stopped this morning, giving me that unmistakable whiff of burnt circuit board as it said farewell. I guess it's not too bad for 43 years of service. I might (but probably won't) take it apart to see. You get to the point with this old stuff where you say, 'what's the point'?

So, my current and on-going scorecard is:

Garrard Z-100 --> 48 years and still going strong, as the day it was new.
Technics SL-1100a --> 45 years and still runs as new.
Technics SL-1200 Mk 5 --> 15 years in service. The youngster of the group.

My room mate in college had a Z-100 with, I believe, a Stanton 681 on it. It sat on his Sansui 5000A. My Dual 1209 with a Shure M91ED sat on my Kenwood 4140. The receivers were hooked together so we could play either TT or his Sony 366 and have all 4 speakers playing simultaneously. Made quite a sound in our not so huge dorm room. I imagine you enjoy the Z-100.

 

[anmpr1]

I imagine you enjoy the Z-100.

Approaching 50 years on, and expecting something to last, I think we can say that simpler is better. The Garrard featured a synchronous motor that connects to an idler reduction wheel coupled to the motor's tapered shaft. No complicated electronics to go bad. As long as the motor and its related electrics work, the table will work. Frankly, I am surprised that the idler wheel (a hard rubber disc) has not disintegrated over the years. But it is still pliable and has not developed any flats.

The Dual had a more complicated electronic direct drive, with more electrical parts. More circuitry to go bad. That said, my Technics, from an even earlier era than the 704, is still working. If I was looking for a Dual from that era, I'd go with one of their simpler idler drives, like the 1219 or 1229.

If I was just getting into records, unless someone gave me an old record player or I could get one for just a few dollars, I'd probably buy something new with a warranty.

 

[Leporello]

Hey, I resemble that comment! ;-)

I like disco (and funk) and have actually bought a ton of disco records recently, many obscure. I love that old combo of dance beats with lush strings and horn sections. They are a blast, and also a number have surprisingly excellent sound quality.

Now, if we are talking about blowing up Tom Waits records, I'm all for that.

Slightly OT, but to me the Tom Waits 'madness 'albums (starting with Rain Dogs) have always been the ultimate audiophile experience. With a mono bluetooth speaker they would not make any sense at all. But with good headphones (Stax) they transform into hugely interesting and weird radio dramas. The same goes for many Beastie Boys albums.

 

[anmpr1]

Here is Yang Mi, color coordinated and posing with a 'modern' but retro styled record player console. I'm sure vinyl-philes wouldn't mind taking her it for a spin. A hands on demo/review is not planned, but if it happens, measurements to follow...

 

[Purité Audio]

VTA doesn’t look right.
Keith

 

[sergeauckland]

VTA doesn’t look right.
Keith

Nice to see an arm where the vertical pivot is in line with the record surface. Avoids warp wow.

S.

 

[Helicopter]

 

[Purité Audio]

Nice to see an arm where the vertical pivot is in line with the record surface. Avoids warp wow.

S.

Is there even a ‘vinyl’ on the platter?
Keith

 

[mhardy6647]

... looks like vinyl on her calves.

and a Little Black Dress. Extra-little, one notes.

 

[audiopile]

I'm impressed -you actually looked at the platter !