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Why Audiophiles Are Shopping for Vintage Turntables

xr100

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That's just more B.S.

Fun? I'm sorry but motorcycles are not "fun." They are just some old retrograde technology that some people are still trying to foist upon us. You see, I personally do not care for motorcycles. Therefore attempts to justify their existence as being "fun" for anyone else is just more desperate nonsense from the motorcycle-loving brigade.

"1885 - Gottlieb Daimler invented what is often recognized as the prototype of the modern gas engine — with a vertical cylinder, and with gasoline injected through a carburetor (patented in 1887). Daimler first built a two-wheeled vehicle the "Reitwagen" (Riding Carriage) with this engine and a year later built the world's first four-wheeled motor vehicle."

(Source: https://www.thoughtco.com/who-invented-the-car-4059932)

So, both the "car" and "motorcycle" were invented more or less at the same time. ;-)

Besides, motorcycles are available that are "high-tech."

1582046517156.png


What motorcycles aren't is "comfortable" and, as you suggest, they can be a nuisance for others on or near the roads on which they travel. :)

And, moreover, motorcycles are statistically massively more unsafe for the rider. Personally, I have never ridden a motorcycle, even as a passenger; I regard them as a completely unsuitable means of transport.

But not fun?! For one, the above motorbike will do 0-60 in 2.5 seconds. Everyone gets a kick out of an adrenaline rush... maybe they don't consider it "fun," but the physiological effects are incontrovertible.

Fortunately, rollercoasters exist to give thrills in statistically almost absolute safety. :)
 

MattHooper

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What motorcycles aren't is "comfortable" and, as you suggest, they can be a nuisance for others on or near the roads on which they travel. :)

And, moreover, motorcycles are statistically massively more unsafe for the rider. Personally, I have never ridden a motorcycle, even as a passenger; I regard them as a completely unsuitable means of transport.

Yup. Anyone arguing they are a suitable means of transport in the year 2020 is just blowing b.s. (;))

But not fun?! For one, the above motorbike will do 0-60 in 2.5 seconds. Everyone gets a kick out of an adrenaline rush... maybe they don't consider it "fun," but the physiological effects are incontrovertible.

But I don't find them fun!

Therefore I refuse to recognize that anyone else can have a good reason to ride a motorcycle because they find it "fun." ;);););););)

(I hope the smiley's are making my point clear?)
 

xr100

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But I don't find them fun!

Therefore I refuse to recognize that anyone else can have a good reason to ride a motorcycle because they find it "fun." ;);););););)

(I hope the smiley's are making my point clear?)

I got that you were kidding around... I just couldn't resist writing a quasi-serious response. ;):)
 

sergeauckland

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As someone who's fallen off every motorcycle he's ever ridden, I don't 'like' motorcycles. The noise, the discomfort and the pain when I fall off. Consequently, I liken motorcycles to banging one's head against a wall....great when you stop.

Nevertheless there are those who enjoy them, but then there are those who enjoy sky diving, rock climbing, Disneyland rides and even horn loudspeakers and valve amplifiers. Mad, the lot of them.

S
 

Robin L

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Good news for xr100 and MattHooper: My brother Brad is working on electric-powered Harleys.
 

xr100

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Understood. Apology accepted! (Even if not aimed at me...and I don't get offended anyway).

Thank you. (And whilst it was not a direct reply, I had yourself in mind also when I wrote it.:))

By analogy: Until recently we had a long-standing Drive-In movie theater near our downtown that was usually packed. I took my kids there often through the years, and would even go myself and with friends.

The average videophile could say "Drive in movie picture and sound quality is so technically poor it does not deserve any respect." Sure, from a certain criteria. But, then, that would be to totally miss the various aspects of the whole experience, and hence the value it held for those *seeking that experience.*. And it would be self-centred and blinkered for the videophile to think "therefore Drive In Movie Theaters need to go away!" just because that videophile himself doesn't find value in them.

I have never been to a drive-in, and I haven't the faintest clue where the nearest one would even have existed.

I'm not sure that drive-ins inherently must provide poor picture quality. As I understand it, the problem is that the screens are generally very big--however, the top of the line cinema projectors these days will adequately illuminate "large format" screens. However, these don't come cheap!*

(* And, I gather that the move over to digital has proven to be the "last straw" for the continued operation of many.)

Also, I think the screen surfaces in drive-ins tend to be of poor quality.

Other problems might be on the vertical position relative to screen (after all, they can hardly provide "stadium seating"-style raked parking,) and depending on how clean it is etc., having to view the screen through the vehicle's windscreen.

Where drive-ins DEFINITELY fall down, though, is on sound.

In terms of total experience, yes, I can imagine that it is quite different to sitting in an auditorium, and has nostalgic elements, too.

I can, however, relate experiences in older movie theatres that compared to a "clean sheet" design are technically inferior, yet provide a level of "magic" and "sense of occasion" that new builds tend not to. But this would still require the picture and sound to be about as good as it can be, as well providing the level of seating comfort in line with today's expectations.

1582048499291.png


^ London's Odeon Leicester Square. Original 1930's plasterwork above circle (balcony), albeit now painted in a dark colour. Replica "flying ladies" sculptures on sidewalls near screen end. Reverberation time still too long despite added acoustic absorption, compromised seating position and screen too small for auditorium size. Dolby Cinema installation, dual laser projection. Check out the Atmos overheads/sides/rears and the 4 cabinets containing 16x18" rear bass drivers hanging from the ceiling. Watching a movie there is definitely different to the typical "box" multiplex auditorium, with pros and cons.

Hmm, I'm not quite seeing how this is analogous to vinyl, though.

But I'm not going to conclude motorcycles have no reason to exist.

As someone who uses UberEats maybe once a month when in an exceptionally lazy mood, I can say that motorcycles (scooters) have a reason to exist; namely, the expedited delivery of dinner. ;-)

Yup. If you approach trying to understand the appeal of vinyl from a very, very narrow viewpoint built around your personal criteria, you won't understand it.

Well, an evening of going through old vinyl is perfectly fun. As a "hi-fi" format? Properly implemented linear PCM is transparent, and if not then as converters improve, beyond question asymptotically reaching transparency. (Besides, outside of many decades old content, there is very little vinyl that isn't sourced from PCM, anyway.)

As a primary means of regularly listening to music? Hmm.

Does vinyl tend to sound as bad as your post implies? Nah. I can get fantastic sound from both. (And when I can compare good vinyl pressings to the digital versions from the same masters, it doesn't sound "highly corrupt," they sound amazingly similar).

Have you tried listening via headphones? I find vinyl pretty frightening listened to that way. Wandering stereo image, reverb tails turned to mush, etc...

For me the recording/production/mastering quality far outweigh the difference between each delivery system, in terms of the sound quality I experience.

Yes, of course the master recording quality is of paramount importance... garbage in, garbage out...
 
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Robin L

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Phonographs sound like Harleys revving in the living room to me :eek:.
 

JDragon

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I do not understand your response. If there were 5 sites producing laquers then this destruction would be limited, short term. Even though actual sales of LP s are still relatively low, this fire can stop expansion of LP s or reduce sales altogether, all by itself. I'm not spinning this news, I'm pointing out the implications of this fire, noting what others in the industry have said. As the "fashion statement" concerning the vinyl revival is being reinforced by movies, ads and other forms of mass media, we get the collective impression that LP sales (at least sales of new LP s) are much greater than they are in reality. The RIAA sales chart you posted reinforces that sales of new LPs are actually quite limited. In any case, I never said this is "fantastic" news.

Someone made a post calling the destruction of the factory "fantastic news."

I noted that as an immature attitude to hold. I did not comment about any "vinyl revival." In fact, I agree with you that a "vinyl revival" is limited in scope to a niche market.

You quoted my post that had nothing to do with a "vinyl revival" and said that this fire showed that this "vinyl revival" was overstated in scope.

I pointed out that you didn't need the fire to show you that. You could have just looked at the raw numbers presented by the RIAA to approximate the scale of the "vinyl revival." For a site devoted to science, the data should be the first place you look. I then reinforced that the point of my initial comment was to address the pettiness of calling the fire "fantastic news" regardless of your views on vinyl.

I hope you can follow now.
 

Frank Dernie

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The one thought experiment I have is, is it better to have excellent sound quality but a mediocre piece, or a fantastic composition and mediocre sound quality?
True.
I would rather listen to Bach on my phone speaker than rap on the best hifi ever assembled but that is just my taste.
As it is I have a fine hifi system but still sometimes listen to relatively poor quality recordings if I enjoy the performance.

After all the difference in recording quality, whether of LP or CD is much, much bigger than the difference in sound quality between competent hifi systems.
 

Robin L

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Someone made a post calling the destruction of the factory "fantastic news."

I noted that as an immature attitude to hold. I did not comment about any "vinyl revival." In fact, I agree with you that a "vinyl revival" is limited in scope to a niche market.

You quoted my post that had nothing to do with a "vinyl revival" and said that this fire showed that this "vinyl revival" was overstated in scope.

I pointed out that you didn't need the fire to show you that. You could have just looked at the raw numbers presented by the RIAA to approximate the scale of the "vinyl revival." For a site devoted to science, the data should be the first place you look. I then reinforced that the point of my initial comment was to address the pettiness of calling the fire "fantastic news" regardless of your views on vinyl.

I hope you can follow now.
Yep. Looks like it could use a flow-chart.
 

xr100

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Someone made a post calling the destruction of the factory "fantastic news." […] I then clarified that the point of my initial comment was to address the pettiness of calling the fire "fantastic news" regardless of your views on vinyl.

It was a joke which I accept you did not appreciate, and others might not either, and for which I have already apologised.
 
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BDWoody

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Good news for xr100 and MattHooper: My brother Brad is working on electric-powered Harleys.

That's no fun... I guess I'll have to get a massive amp and speaker to replace that awesome V-Twin sound...

Then I can track down @MattHooper and ride beside his car at every chance...

Because it's fun...;)
 

Robin L

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The one thought experiment I have is, is it better to have excellent sound quality but a mediocre piece, or a fantastic composition and mediocre sound quality?
Can't get any higher in sound quality than live acoustic music. And an awful, atonal, lame or incompetent musical performance only gets worse the easier it is to hear. I still listen to Robert Johnson, Big Bill Broonzy, Artur Schnabel, Alfred Cortot, Louis Armstrong & Billie Holiday.

Glenn Gould said that the best music is recalled in memory, without actually being sounded. Words to that effect.
 

Robin L

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That's no fun... I guess I'll have to get a massive amp and speaker to replace that awesome V-Twin sound...

Then I can track down @MattHooper and ride beside his car at every chance...

Because it's fun...;)
Born to be wild . . .
 

Frank Dernie

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:facepalm: Good thing that Harleys are (presumably) a relative rarity in the UK!
There was a Harley dealer a couple of miles from me near Abingdon. They are VERY expensive but very fashionable with older riders here. The dealer has closed now, though that may because it was successful and moved to a better location.
 

Robin L

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I have never been to a drive-in, and I haven't the faintest clue where the nearest one would even have existed.
Sunnyside Drive-In, Fresno. Saw Woodstock there when it came out. "Passion Pits", they were called. Bad sound, usually a low-cost second run theater with prints worn from the first run. The most likely spot to watch a Roger Corman flick. Now it's mostly a flea market on weekends.

I saw "The Other Side of the Wind" for the 11th time last night. It's Orson Welles' autofiction about a washed-up, old-school Hollywood Movie Director's last hurrah. The movie's last image is of his unfinished film being projected at a drive-in:

Shoot Them Dead.jpg
 
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