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Why aren't we pushing for more 4-8 channel DACS for a quality Stereo setup

Kal Rubinson

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For me, the processing is way to rudimentary. Cannot speak for the OP.
Exactly. Hence, I suggested an updated/enhanced version which, clearly, miniDSP can do. Take the processing from the NanoAVR.
 

pos

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Personally I like it the way it is: a driver-less audio interface that works on any OS.
As it is supposed to be attached to a computer anyway, why not let it do the filtering?

I also like the fact that you can choose between spdif and AES3, and that all outputs are transformer-coupled.
I could see a new version with lower jitter, but this is a non-issue with nowaday DACs anyway...
 

tuga

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I think my title caused confusion. This is for a quality stereo setup, NOT surround sound.


I agree the pushing is the demand. To be clear- this has nothing to do with surround sound. This is for stereo use, so that you can process and power every driver in each of the two speakers separately. This makes designing speakers much easier, as you can roll off however you want. It also benefits pretty much every speaker to gut the passive crossovers and run this style. This is the ultimate in separation, clarity, and tunability.

Realistically, how many audiophiles would feel confident setting up active speakers by themselves?
And then there's the cost of multipe amplifiers.

That said, even though I am happy with my 2.0 stereo system I wouldn't mind making it a 2.2 one.
 

Yorkshire Mouth

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So, the Otko DAC8 is (as far as I’m aware) the best 8-channel DAC reviewed and measured here. Price $1,000+.

Otko DAC8 SINAD 118dB.

The Topping E50 has a SINAD of 11dB and costs $270.

I could go in pointing out the pros and cons and measurements, (and I know the Otko is also a headphone amp), but the truth is that they’re both already totally transparent in every area. And if you want to ignore ‘better’ figures altogether and just opt for something completely transparent, the truth is you can get it for $350 or so.

Which, I believe, answers the original question.
 

cyruz

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A matter of time until we get one? What about the countless ones mentioned in this thread?

I agree that these threads pop up all the time, which is rather odd considering the replies always include multiple options. Ignoring miniDSP products, I have 5 multichannel USB DACs on hand that accomplish what the OP wants. They are readily available.

Michael

Hi Michael, yes definitely available but they are not the class of product that are requested by most of the ops.

People are looking for DACs not for full flegded audio interfaces. They want remotes, class compliant, dead simple devices with the same SOTA chips used in the stereo DACs.

I got myself a Mk5 after evaluating all the alternatives (thanks to your advice) but all of them fall short because of either complexity, missing remotes, old hardware, bad performances or price...
 

ElNino

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I wonder if RME might be interested in producing a limited-run "hobbyist edition" of the RME Digiface USB, with the TotalMix functionality removed and presumably the cost reduced as a result.
 

mdsimon2

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Hi Michael, yes definitely available but they are not the class of product that are requested by most of the ops.

People are looking for DACs not for full flegded audio interfaces. They want remotes, class compliant, dead simple devices with the same SOTA chips used in the stereo DACs.

I got myself a Mk5 after evaluating all the alternatives (thanks to your advice) but all of them fall short because of either complexity, missing remotes, old hardware, bad performances or price...

With CamillaDSP remote / volume control is effectively solved for any USB DAC that works with Linux.

As mentioned in my first post in this thread the U-DIO8 has been available for 4 years and allows you to use multiple high performance stereo DACs.

I stand by my previous statement that the acoustic measurement and design of DIY speakers is much more challenging than the DSP / DAC aspect.

Michael
 

cyruz

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With CamillaDSP remote / volume control is effectively solved for any USB DAC that works with Linux.

As mentioned in my first post in this thread the U-DIO8 has been available for 4 years and allows you to use multiple high performance stereo DACs.

I stand by my previous statement that the acoustic measurement and design of DIY speakers is much more challenging than the DSP / DAC aspect.

Michael

There are things people are willing to thinker with. Maybe somebody is willing to do trial and errors and learn how to do active DSP but they are not willing to hack a remote control or to learn Linux and assemble a Raspi.

In my previous post I was talking about tradeoffs. I won't quote all the availlable solutions, but Mk5 falls short for the remote, the U-DIO falls short on price and space, and so on...

Moreover, why do you think these threads keep popping up if not for a need that has not been fully addressed yet?
 

mdsimon2

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There are things people are willing to thinker with. Maybe somebody is willing to do trial and errors and learn how to do active DSP but they are not willing to hack a remote control or to learn Linux and assemble a Raspi.

In my previous post I was talking about tradeoffs. I won't quote all the availlable solutions, but Mk5 falls short for the remote, the U-DIO falls short on price and space, and so on...

Moreover, why do you think these threads keep popping up if not for a need that has not been fully addressed yet?

Hack apart a remote? If you are OK using your phone the CamillaDSP web interface will do volume control without any fuss. Of course if you want to add an IR receiver it is easy to do with minimal tinkering.

Assemble a raspi? Not sure what assembly there is other the following the excellent CamillaDSP installation instructions. In this case the OP is already using CamillaDSP on a RPi so that is not an issue.

As I mentioned before I do not know why these threads exist. The more this discussion goes on the more I am convinced that customer base for this goldilocks DAC is very small. Those that are interested in actually implementing a solution have already done so.

Michael
 

cyruz

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Hack apart a remote? If you are OK using your phone the CamillaDSP web interface will do volume control without any fuss. Of course if you want to add an IR receiver it is easy to do with minimal tinkering.

Assemble a raspi? Not sure what assembly there is other the following the excellent CamillaDSP installation instructions. In this case the OP is already using CamillaDSP on a RPi so that is not an issue.

As I mentioned before I do not know why these threads exist. The more this discussion goes on the more I am convinced that customer base for this goldilocks DAC is very small. Those that are interested in actually implementing a solution have already done so.

Michael

Yet you are still talking about implementing a solution. People is talking about buying one.

Your mindset is brilliant, but you are not acknowledging the "lazy" customers.

Anyway, cheers!
 
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As I mentioned before I do not know why these threads exist. The more this discussion goes on the more I am convinced that customer base for this goldilocks DAC is very small. Those that are interested in actually implementing a solution have already done so.

Michael
IMO, this year is the very first time it makes widespread sense for this to happen, for the following reasons:
1) Apple and Amazon HD content is finally widely available, and millennials are taking note of, appreciating, and now wanting higher quality.
2) We finally have excellent amps for $80. Most everyone knows bi and tri-amping is optimal, but now it is finally affordable for all.
3) We have DAC’s that great, that can be built very affordable.
4) Camilla (and others) is more capable and easier to use than ever before.

In the words of my first real estate investment mentor- having the right idea too early, is the same as having the wrong idea.
 

mdsimon2

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As a long time active system proponent you do not need to convince me :). I built my first fully active system in 2005 and having been running them ever since. Heck, Linkwitz has been an active advocate since what, the late 70s?

As a tinkerer I love DIY active systems, but I think they are a hard sell for a lot of folks and do not see them ever becoming widespread. We are definitely seeing tons of really good consumer active systems which I think are more the way of the future. Very few people have the time, desire or knowledge to mess with DIY.

If anyone wants to implement a DIY active system using one of the many multichannel DACs available today but needs some help, let me know, I am more than happy to assist. And I should say, although the initial investment can be a bit much (in terms of amps, DAC / DSP) once you have it so many options open. It is almost too easy to build new designs and tweak old ones.

Michael
 

Dion_Sinewave

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I am using Lakes :) they are fantastic. Dolby Lake DLP and Contours.

Unparalleled EQ capabilities. Input/output flexibility with Dante (!) 8 ch AES in and out. Mine is 4 in 12 channels out. For my 4 way active system
 

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Dion_Sinewave

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Takes a laptop to configure but then it’s a standalone device, then I use a few presets ie: stereo XLR in from my Anthem processor for movies, 2x 3 way plus mono subs out x 4
preset 2 is Dante 96/24 from my PC using JRiver and Acourate.
preset 3 is optical from my other devices
 

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Dion_Sinewave

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Apologies for my awful photos. I genuinely don’t know why more people don’t use ’professional’ DACs. Maybe lots of DIY guys do and I just don’t see their posts?
 

mdsimon2

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Nice! I heard about the Dolby Lake back in the day and looked at them a year or two ago, not terribly priced on the used market. Reading through the manual the software / user interface seemed really nice. Any issues running the software on a modern computer?

Your example also brings up another way to solve the issue of lack of remote / volume control on these pro audio interfaces. They all have good ADCs so if you have a high performance stereo DAC you can use that as volume control. Sure it adds an extra conversion but it is a completely plug and play way to get remote / volume control.

Michael
 
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I am using Lakes :) they are fantastic. Dolby Lake DLP and Contours.

Unparalleled EQ capabilities. Input/output flexibility with Dante (!) 8 ch AES in and out. Mine is 4 in 12 channels out. For my 4 way active system
That’s pretty darn sweet… But I am lobbying for $400-$600 DAC’s not $4,000-$6,000. It’s always that extra zero, that gets me
 

Dion_Sinewave

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re: lack of remote. I am actually in the process of having an external device with a volume knob and IR remote function built for me but totally understand that not every one has access to that possibility.

In my case I use the volume control from the Anthem or my phone to control volume from JRiver remote which works perfectly for me.
 
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