Why aren't there DSP-speakers with external electronics?

[anphex]

Looking at basically all active DSP speakers avaiable I wonder why there isn't a design where the speaker is active but the modules that run the speaker are kept externally or at least detachable.
This would remove the biggest disadvantage of DSP speakers: the reliance on the electronics not becoming faulty over time since you could easily replace or even update the external module.

Think of something like an AUDIOPHONICS HPA-Q250NC but in a more square-shaped package and with a configurable DSP like a Raspberry or some special edition of an Arduino. Or to put it easier: a Hypex fusion amp outside of the speaker. This way, the speaker could be designed like a passive cabinet but with 6-10 wire ports where the amp outputs would be plugged in. The audio itself of course gets plugged into the external active module.

I know this adds some user complexity but also incredible amounts of flexibility. You could use multiple presets depending on desired compromise between max volume/distortion/radiation/bass extension.

Of course this would allow incredible high amount of repairability and customization. Like another driver petter? Screw it in and upload a new FIR-crossover. One amp module broke after a few years? Just plug a new one in.

Please share you mind on this.

 

[RayDunzl]

My passives are externally DSP'd and amp'd.

Krell and miniDSP.

My actives are internally amp'd and externally DSP'd, with the miniDSP.

What's special about your idea?

 

[charlielaub]

The Linkwitz LX521 is configured in this way, with external crossover and amps in a 1U chassis (one per side). Not at all re-configurable, however.

Most manufacturers are not looking to make DIY or aftermarket customizable systems. If you want that you need to DIY it.

I would like to see products targeted at DIYers by manufacturers, e.g. a parts kit and DSP info for the crossover, and then a forum for junkies to chat about their latest tweaks. This would bring and involve an entirely different type of customer.

 

[terryforsythe]

Looking at basically all active DSP speakers avaiable I wonder why there isn't a design where the speaker is active but the modules that run the speaker are kept externally or at least detachable.
This would remove the biggest disadvantage of DSP speakers: the reliance on the electronics not becoming faulty over time since you could easily replace or even update the external module.

Think of something like an AUDIOPHONICS HPA-Q250NC but in a more square-shaped package and with a configurable DSP like a Raspberry or some special edition of an Arduino. Or to put it easier: a Hypex fusion amp outside of the speaker. This way, the speaker could be designed like a passive cabinet but with 6-10 wire ports where the amp outputs would be plugged in. The audio itself of course gets plugged into the external active module.

I know this adds some user complexity but also incredible amounts of flexibility. You could use multiple presets depending on desired compromise between max volume/distortion/radiation/bass extension.

Of course this would allow incredible high amount of repairability and customization. Like another driver petter? Screw it in and upload a new FIR-crossover. One amp module broke after a few years? Just plug a new one in.

Please share you mind on this.

I removed the passive crossovers from the speakers in one of my systems and went all active with external components. I also added additional bracing, glue and damping material to the cabinets, and plugged the ports for better phase alignment with my subwoofer. The system sounds much better now.

 

[staticV3]

Looking at basically all active DSP speakers avaiable I wonder why there isn't a design where the speaker is active but the modules that run the speaker are kept externally or at least detachable.

JBL 705i/708i

 

[WillBrink]

Looking at basically all active DSP speakers avaiable I wonder why there isn't a design where the speaker is active but the modules that run the speaker are kept externally or at least detachable.
This would remove the biggest disadvantage of DSP speakers: the reliance on the electronics not becoming faulty over time since you could easily replace or even update the external module.

Think of something like an AUDIOPHONICS HPA-Q250NC but in a more square-shaped package and with a configurable DSP like a Raspberry or some special edition of an Arduino. Or to put it easier: a Hypex fusion amp outside of the speaker. This way, the speaker could be designed like a passive cabinet but with 6-10 wire ports where the amp outputs would be plugged in. The audio itself of course gets plugged into the external active module.

I know this adds some user complexity but also incredible amounts of flexibility. You could use multiple presets depending on desired compromise between max volume/distortion/radiation/bass extension.

Of course this would allow incredible high amount of repairability and customization. Like another driver petter? Screw it in and upload a new FIR-crossover. One amp module broke after a few years? Just plug a new one in.

Please share you mind on this.

That's something Bryston offers I recall.

 

[Another Bob]

The JBL M2 fits the bill. Not only do they offer multiple amp and DSP module options, you can also buy the speakers with no electronics and roll your own.

 

[anphex]

I removed the passive crossovers from the speakers in one of my systems and went all active with external components. I also added additional bracing, glue and damping material to the cabinets, and plugged the ports for better phase alignment with my subwoofer. The system sounds much better now.

Could you show me/us?

 

[terryforsythe]

Could you show me/us?

Modifications to Elac Uni-Fi Reference UBR62 Bookshelf Speakers

I have removed the passive crossovers from my Elac Uni-Fi Reference UBR62 Bookshelf Speakers and gone all active. In doing so, I moved the woofer/midrange crossover frequency from 200 Hz to 450 Hz. Side Note: Elac specifies the woofer/midrange crossover point as being 260 Hz, but my pair...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[highender]

Sun Audio Purified 4

I was contacted by the manufacturer and he gave me the spinorama for this speaker: Purified 4. "The measurements are performed by IFAA in Germany within the following semi-anechoic class-1 chamber: https://ifaa-akustik.de/en/the-institute/technical-facilities/". As the name implies that's a 4...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Optional Hypex amp + DSP with pre-installed DSP profiles.

Nord DSP-DAC NCAS500MP Amplifier - Built for Sun Audio

Customized version of the Nord DSP-DAC NC252MP Amplifier. The integrated amplifier with DSP crossover contains the Hypex NCore® NCAS500MP amplifier modules and the variant specific DSP crossover profiles of our loudspeakers will be pre-installed. Plug & Play.

sunaudio.com

 

[terryforsythe]

Could you show me/us?

I posted the link to my project above. I don't recall if I cover the electronics I used in that thread. They are as follows:

miniDSP Flex HTx: 8 channel active crossovers and DSP

Hypex Nilai500DIY Stereo amplifier: Powering the woofers

2 x Topping LA90 Discrete amplifiers: One amplifier powering the midrange and tweeter on the left speaker, and one amplifier powering the midrange and tweeter on the right speaker.

My subwoofer is a 25-year old Velodyne HGS-18 with its own built-in plate amplifier.

 

[Roland68]

Looking at basically all active DSP speakers avaiable I wonder why there isn't a design where the speaker is active but the modules that run the speaker are kept externally or at least detachable.
This would remove the biggest disadvantage of DSP speakers: the reliance on the electronics not becoming faulty over time since you could easily replace or even update the external module.

Think of something like an AUDIOPHONICS HPA-Q250NC but in a more square-shaped package and with a configurable DSP like a Raspberry or some special edition of an Arduino. Or to put it easier: a Hypex fusion amp outside of the speaker. This way, the speaker could be designed like a passive cabinet but with 6-10 wire ports where the amp outputs would be plugged in. The audio itself of course gets plugged into the external active module.

I know this adds some user complexity but also incredible amounts of flexibility. You could use multiple presets depending on desired compromise between max volume/distortion/radiation/bass extension.

Of course this would allow incredible high amount of repairability and customization. Like another driver petter? Screw it in and upload a new FIR-crossover. One amp module broke after a few years? Just plug a new one in.

Please share you mind on this.

Quite simply, there is almost no customer for it.
- It would be much more expensive and complex to design and manufacture
- You would have to explain the concept to most people and explain it in detail
- Who would be willing to spend significantly more money to achieve better serviceability? Especially if the reason is that the power amplifiers could fail?
- An additional negative point is the wiring.
- Most people want everything in one housing and, if possible, without wiring; even external power supplies are a no-go.

But actually, it almost already exists; take Hypex modules with DSP, build them into a housing and wire it to your speakers, and you're done.
For example, DIY conversion: SB 85 BR Spontan Aktiv
You can also find many other suggestions in this forum.

Your request is clear and understandable to me, but unfortunately difficult to implement in today's world.
But it is very easy to implement it yourself.
You can take finished speakers and remove the crossover. Used top speakers can be very cheap. There are countless DIY kits, including with finished housings, or you can choose the chassis yourself and build the housings or order them.
- Buy a multi-channel DAC (e.g. 8-way)
- Buy the required number of power amplifiers
- Buy an Acourate license and a calibrated measurement microphone
- Buy a powerful i7 notebook or mini desktop (HP Business used from $/€ 150)

Get started, 2-way with a few used parts from $/€ 1400,-, 3-way from $/€ 1600,-, and you are not tied to anything.
An insight: THE PURE ACOURATE SOUND PROJECT

 

[anphex]

Good points from all sides! It would make no sense for manufacturers to be modular since they also have to provide warranty and safety standards. A customer tinkering on high voltage electronics AND providing warranty is nothing short but mental.

So if I want that, it's DIY.

And then I could just get a quality premade cabinet or build one myself and go from there.

Thank you for all these inputs everyone!

 

[beefkabob]

Good points from all sides! It would make no sense for manufacturers to be modular since they also have to provide warranty and safety standards. A customer tinkering on high voltage electronics AND providing warranty is nothing short but mental.

So if I want that, it's DIY.

And then I could just get a quality premade cabinet or build one myself and go from there.

Thank you for all these inputs everyone!

If you're saying DIY, you're not listening. JBL and others offer essentially what you asked for, speakers that are externally amped and DSPd. 705i and 708i are on the mid range. M2 on the high end. I'm sure that JBL sells a lot more p series than i series for the 700s. They're not DIY at all. Somebody will happily come and install a complete setup for you.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Looking at basically all active DSP speakers avaiable I wonder why there isn't a design where the speaker is active but the modules that run the speaker are kept externally or at least detachable.
This would remove the biggest disadvantage of DSP speakers: the reliance on the electronics not becoming faulty over time since you could easily replace or even update the external module.

I am not sure if your logic is sound here. In addition to the points by the previous poster: An external DSP, and at the very least its configuration, would still be proprietary, so you are still reliant on these electronics being available from the manufacturer over time.

Our amps (as an example) take 5 minutes to replace and the only tool you need is to remove the screws attaching the amp to the speaker. It can be done by yourself, by us or by some local shop. So practically it's just as easy, and in my opinion tidyer and less "stuff" to just have it onboard.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

The GGNTKT M1's fill this bill as well. It's similar to the Linkwitz designs in that the electronics all sit in a box outside the speakers, and a single Speakon-terminated speaker cable carries the actively crossed, tri-amped and DSP'd signal to each speaker from a single cable with internal wiring for each driver.

 

[holdingpants01]

There certainly are DSP speakers with external electronics. Genelec 8381A uses something like this, but for a different reasons (there's 6kW of power per side, so I assume heat and weight distribution was the goal). Also a lot of main speakers that could be flush mounted have easily detachable amps, like ATCs, Neumann KH420 etc. Then there are few non-DSP active speakers (or powered to be more precise) with external amps, like sE Munro Egg, Amphions

 

[Roland68]

I am not sure if your logic is sound here. In addition to the points by the previous poster: An external DSP, and at the very least its configuration, would still be proprietary, so you are still reliant on these electronics being available from the manufacturer over time.

Our amps (as an example) take 5 minutes to replace and the only tool you need is to remove the screws attaching the amp to the speaker. It can be done by yourself, by us or by some local shop. So practically it's just as easy, and in my opinion tidyer and less "stuff" to just have it onboard.

Then you haven't taken a look at the ACOURATE software yet.
You are completely free to choose the components and don't need to worry about unavailable hardware. The only requirement is the Windows operating system.
THE PURE ACOURATE SOUND PROJECT caused a stir at this year's High End in Munich and was very impressive.
@DTTOM37 wrote something about it here.
The software is affordable and the rest is up to your own discretion.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Then you haven't taken a look at the ACOURATE software yet.
You are completely free to choose the components and don't need to worry about unavailable hardware. The only requirement is the Windows operating system.
THE PURE ACOURATE SOUND PROJECT caused a stir at this year's High End in Munich and was very impressive.
@DTTOM37 wrote something about it here.
The software is affordable and the rest is up to your own discretion.

So as a commercial manufacturer, how do you suggest I implement this in a user friendly way for the consumer?

 

[Sokel]

There's lots out there fully active with external electronics but there's also hybrids with external electronics (active low end,x-overed to passive mid-high) .
There was some of them in Munich too but they weren't cheap.