Why are there no DACs with hdmi input ?

[P_M]

Or conversely, are there any ?
All the standalone DACs I have come across have spdif and usb but no hdmi. Why is that ?
Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't hdmi offer a mode of transmission (something similar to asynchronous usb) that allows to eliminate or significantly reduce jitter ? In that case wouldn't it be much prefered over spdif ?

 

[Wes]

Oppo 205 has an HDMI input (all in one disc player)

 

[Angsty]

The Bryston BDA-3 has four HDMI inputs.

https://bryston.com/digital-audio/bda3/

 

[gvl]

Nad M51.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

NAD M33

 

[raindance]

Essence Audio has one also.

 

[gvl]

One important question left unanswered, does the drop become a bump at higher temperatures?

 

[gvl]

One important question left unanswered, does the drop become a bump at higher temperatures?

Oops, wrong thread.

 

[wwenze]

What are the fees for HDMI?
Annual Fee
HDMI Adopters must pay an annual fee of fifteen thousand dollars (US$15,000). The annual fee is due upon the execution of the Adopter Agreement, and must be paid on the anniversary of this date each year thereafter. Note that HDMI does provide an alternative annual fee payment for small-volume manufacturers (10,000 units or less). Please see Attachment B of the Adopter Agreement for details.
Royalty
HDMI is available for a reasonable royalty rate as follows:

• For each end-user Licensed Product, fifteen cents (US$0.15) per unit sold.
• If the Adopter reasonably uses the HDMI logo on the product and promotional materials, then the rate drops to five cents (US$0.05) per unit sold.
• If the Adopter implements HDCP content protection as set forth in the HDMI Specification, then the royalty rate is further reduced by one cent (US $.01) per unit sold, for a lowest rate of four cents (.04) per unit. Adopters must license HDCP separately from Digital Content Protection, LLC, an Intel subsidiary. Please see www.digital-cp.com for details.

http://car.france3.mars.free.fr/HD/INA- 26 jan 06/Conf CST HDMI/HDMI-2/faq.asp.html

 

[Beershaun]

Great question that not enough reviewers are asking. Wwenzes response plus this thread help answer that. Tldr; cost+hdcp+worse signal performance means no benefit for music.

https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/a-deep-dive-into-hdmi-audio-performance.56/

 

[RayDunzl]

Related Question:

Since "most" DACs have USB inputs now...

Why don't (name anything except a PC or phone) have USB outputs? Or do they?

(maybe some streamers do, but nothing in my rack has a USB output to connect to the DAC)

 

[Beershaun]

Related Question:

Since "most" DACs have USB inputs now...

Why don't (name anything except a PC or phone) have USB outputs? Or do they?

(maybe some streamers do, but nothing in my rack has a USB output to connect to the DAC)

Yep. It all sucks right now for streaming endpoints. It should be much easier than hardware companies(edit digital rights holders) are making it. Microsoft seems to be the only consumer audiophile friendly company right now...how did that happen.

 

[Morla]

My cocktailaudio x45 has usb (and hdmi) out. But in a way you could call it a pc

 

[DownUnderGazza]

Essence Audio has one also.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...rements-of-essence-hdacc-ii-4k-hdmi-dac.7171/

 

[wineandmusic]

most avr's have hdmi in and internal dac (grin)

 

[P_M]

I should have mentioned - "reasonably priced" dacs. (under $500)

 

[Racheski]

I should have mentioned - "reasonably priced" dacs. (under $500)

Because once you start to name the use cases you realize there are alternatives and not many audiophiles need it.

 

[Vasr]

Few people need HDMI for 2-ch audio - hardly any sources that only provide HDMI out for music.
Few people do multi-channel audio - USB is a license-free alternative, DSD is decoded in the DAC and does not require HDMI

HDMI makes most sense if you are also doing video. In the simplest form all HDMI audio extractors provide a 7.1 DAC to analog and just pass through HDMI to connect to a TV/Monitor. These vary from $40-$300.

At the next level up, you are into pre/pro territory. They have to keep updating as standards change HDMI 1.4, 2.0, 2.1 and then there are HDCP versions to manage, get ARC and CEC right, get EDID right, provide switching between a HDMI and a TOSLINK, a remote, volume control, etc. The Emotiva MC-700 or IOTAVX AVX1 (clones of each other inside) are in the $600-$800 range when they have to do all of this. You also get eq features etc. Next cheapest here is the Outlaw 976. All of these made relatively inexpensive by rebranding Asian OEMs. They don't even try to keep up with all the new 8+ channel formats because of licensing issues.

I would love to have a unit with 2 HDMI inputs with 4k and pass through of video with HDCP, one or two TOSLINK inputs, a high end multi-channel DAC that is good enough for music, a volume control and source switching via a remote to act as a lightweight pre/pro. Other than the Emotiva/IOTAVX/Outlaw above, there aren't many choices. But they have compromises for the price.

You really have to go into 4 figures or compromise in requirements when HDMI is involved.

 

[Racheski]

Few people need HDMI for 2-ch audio - hardly any sources that only provide HDMI out for music.
Few people do multi-channel audio - USB is a license-free alternative, DSD is decoded in the DAC and does not require HDMI

HDMI makes most sense if you are also doing video. In the simplest form all HDMI audio extractors provide a 7.1 DAC to analog and just pass through HDMI to connect to a TV/Monitor. These vary from $40-$300.

At the next level up, you are into pre/pro territory. They have to keep updating as standards change HDMI 1.4, 2.0, 2.1 and then there are HDCP versions to manage, get ARC and CEC right, get EDID right, provide switching between a HDMI and a TOSLINK, a remote, volume control, etc. The Emotiva MC-700 or IOTAVX AVX1 (clones of each other inside) are in the $600-$800 range when they have to do all of this. You also get eq features etc. Next cheapest here is the Outlaw 976. All of these made relatively inexpensive by rebranding Asian OEMs. They don't even try to keep up with all the new 8+ channel formats because of licensing issues.

I would love to have a unit with 2 HDMI inputs with 4k and pass through of video with HDCP, one or two TOSLINK inputs, a high end multi-channel DAC that is good enough for music, a volume control and source switching via a remote to act as a lightweight pre/pro. Other than the Emotiva/IOTAVX/Outlaw above, there aren't many choices. But they have compromises for the price.

You really have to go into 4 figures or compromise in requirements when HDMI is involved.

That Emotiva is a cool looking unit. Have you used it before?

 

[Vasr]

That Emotiva is a cool looking unit. Have you used it before?

No, earlier this year I did quite a bit of research on this to see if I can break-out my AVR into separates. Functionally, it is a nice combination if you don't have need for analog inputs. Cheaper than IOTAVX AVX1 with the same insides but latter has XLR outs.

I decided to pass for several reasons:

1. It is a very old board design that has not changed much from the Emotiva UMC-1 (and the contemporaneous NuForce AVP-18) using the same Cirrus Logic DAC from the early 2010s. Not a bad DAC for HT but not great either. Construction-wise, UMC-1 didn't measure well at all. Amir didn't measure it but someone else here on ASR did (you can search for it) and it didn't do well. MC-700/IOTAVX AVX1 have redone the board a bit (but same chips and processor) so don't know if those measurements still hold.

2. MC-700 HDMI handling was reported to be problematic in the forums. Losing handshake, pauses after switching sources, requiring a power cycle if the TV it is connected to is turned on after the MC-700 is on, etc. It seemed like more trouble than it is worth if one was interested in video switching and pass through as well. Don't know if IOTAVX suffers from the same issues as it is the same boards inside by the same OEM. This seems to be a common problem with most small players trying to do HDMI. Of course Emotiva being what it is, they never seemed to have tried to fix or upgrade firmware for it. May be the next generation one will be better.

The only reasonable solution at the moment seems to be to buy a older model AVR that has a decent DAC and use it as a pre/pro if you don't need the latest codecs for a zillion speakers. Don't know what a good one is. Most of them are just too big to stack up in limited space and the slim ones don't give pre-outs.