Why are single drivers disliked to such an extent by most in this forum?

[Timcognito]

Do coaxial designs with HF crossovers to tweeters get around the physics? Advantages or disadvantages of those? I'm a novice trying to understand

 

[Sal1950]

I think it's annoying because it's so very noticeable. It isn't so noticeable if you sit unmoving, but most of the people I know don't like to sit and listen with their "head in a vise", so to speak.

Ah, but the soundstage focus can be amazing.
There are limits and extremes to everything but isn't sitting solo in the "sweet spot" what audiophiles do?
Folks that do otherwise have little interest in what we call imaging.
Joe Sixpack puts his two speakers anywhere in the room his wife tells him to, it must look nice you know.

I've developed a interest in tube amps again.

OH NO Dude, mental HiFi masturbation. LOL

The problem with a single driver is physics. You need a large piston for good bass response but a small one for good high frequency response. It’s not possible to have a ten octave range and have acceptable values throughout the range.

And that my friends is the absolute bottom line.
You can't change the laws of physics
My counter-laws fantasy is a single horn driver, 20-20k very flat, no bigger than the average stand mount, 100+ db sensitive, ultra low distortion.
Mental HiFi masturbation! LOL

 

[Doodski]

OH NO Dude, mental HiFi masturbation. LOL

No worries mate! I won't forget my roots with SS and clean clear highs. LoL. Those atmosphere amps look good though!

 

[617]

The BMR basically uses a diaphragm with weights attached which makes them less efficient. They are very useful drivers but not useful for full range. I believe they can be used on headphones

For the last point you made, it's usually because there's a lack of any real BMR that is designed to go that low right? Or is it an inherent limitation of a BMR's design?

 

[computer-audiophile]

The DIY builders seem to love these.

One Pair | Recommended 15" Full Range Speaker Driver | Fast High and Scaled Sound | F-15 - Lii Song (Lii Audio), unique speaker, amplfier, quality and cost-saving parts for HiFi DIY

Technical Data: 1. PMSE-Free 1.35 Ohms 2. Fs 49.6 Hz 3. Re 6.56 Ohms(dc) 4. Qes 63.78 Ohms 5. Qms 7.45 6. Qes 0.78 7. Qts 0.71 8. L1 0.11 mH 9. L2 0.47 mH 10.R2 3.57 Ohms 11.RMSE-load 0.85 Ohms 13.Vas(sd) 178.5 liters 14.Mms 13.70 grams 15.Cms 1473 uM/Newton 16.Bl 5.92 Tesla-M 17.Splref(sd)...

www.lii-audio.com

Yes, you are welcome to count me in.

I'm tempted, what am I missing?

No idea!

 

[Timcognito]

Yes, you are welcome to count me in.



No idea!

Are you suggesting that physical limitations described above are not audible or do you just like the sound of these full range open baffles or something else?

 

[computer-audiophile]

Are you suggesting that physical limitations described above are not audible or do you just like the sound of these full range open baffles or something else?

Compared to other full range speakers, I think the F15 has a very good sound. Whether you like it, you can only try yourself. Of course, you can also theorize about it for pages.

 

[Sal1950]

The DIY builders seem to love these. I'm tempted, what am I missing?

No idea!

Only about 75 years of the evolution of High Fidelity.

 

[Doodski]

Only about 75 years of the evolution of High Fidelity.

View attachment 287176
View attachment 287175
View attachment 287177
View attachment 287178

Look at those wooFS man! Impressive...

 

[sarumbear]

Compared to other full range speakers, I think the F15 has a very good sound. Whether you like it, you can only try yourself. Of course, you can also theorize about it for pages.

Questions:

1- Do you believe in trusting objective measurements of speakers?
2- He e you measured or seen the measurements of those drivers?

 

[computer-audiophile]

That brings back memories. Many of the old parts from this catalogue I have had in my hands or know them from friends. I am already old myself.

 

[mhardy6647]

I've developed a interest in tube amps again.

heh-heh-heh...

 

[Sal1950]

heh-heh-heh...

I never would have sold my VTL's if I could bear their heat in my little double-wide.
Mine from the days when David was still at the helm and they were Made In the USA!
And also I'd need 5 to 9 of them to satisfy me today.

 

[Oristo]

Do coaxial designs with HF crossovers to tweeters get around the physics?

Altec models 18 and 17 were well regarded, using a horn tweeter coaxially mounted
to roughly match dispersion at crossover:

Model 19, with larger separate horn tweeter, was more expensive and reportedly sold 10x more,
making 17 and even rarer 18 more expensive now because collectors.
My friend downstairs had 17s in a room matching mine upstairs with 19s.
Naturally, we each preferred our own..

 

[Sal1950]

My friend downstairs had 17s in a room matching mine upstairs with 19s.

Ya should have done some late night peekin and sneekin.

 

[Doodski]

Ya should have done some late night peekin and sneekin.

Sound like my late night secrets are about to be being divulged. LoL>

 

[mhardy6647]

Altec models 18 and 17 were well regarded, using a horn tweeter coaxially mounted
to roughly match dispersion at crossover:
View attachment 287189
Model 19, with larger separate horn tweeter, was more expensive and reportedly sold 10x more,
making 17 and even rarer 18 more expensive now because collectors.
My friend downstairs had 17s in a room matching mine upstairs with 19s.
Naturally, we each preferred our own..

I'm a fan -- but, of course, not single drivers.
Coaxial, of course, but two separate drivers.

Two pairs of Duplexes (604B and 604E) here -- neither currently in use, though (and in full disclosure).






in situ and complete with audiophile-grade dust.

 

[Doodski]

I'm a fan -- but, of course, not single drivers.
Coaxial, of course, but two separate drivers.

Two pairs of Duplexes (604B and 604E) here -- neither currently in use, though (and in full disclosure).






in situ and complete with audiophile-grade dust.

Amazing the surround suspension is so good. I've handled those drivers and they are wonderfully well preserved in all lighting conditions and humidities. Amazing. Easy to love that and them.

 

[eddantes]

I don't dislike 'em at all.

These are probably my all-around favorites (which is not to say all around best).
Radio Shack 40-1354 5-1/4" twincone driver (modified by the addition of phase plugs to improve the treble a bit) in mass loaded folded, tapered quarter-wave tubes (pipes) designed by Bob Brines. No contouring, no filters.




(back before my hifi loft was full of junk from the other house)

I have a pair of RS 40-1286c and I found them to be pretty good. Better than the Revels i have in the house - no - but not bad at all. Frankly - it just goes to show - we're just all splitting hairs, because our brains compensate so well for the small differences between these various technologies.

 

[sarumbear]

Do coaxial designs with HF crossovers to tweeters get around the physics? Advantages or disadvantages of those? I'm a novice trying to understand

Check the KEF speakers and read their papers.