Why are preamps so expensive?

[djtetei]

Personally, using a mixer as a preamp doesn't work in my set-ups unless the mixer also has remote control.

Although I am mainly a hands on guy, I also use digital mixers with wireless remote control user interfaces via phone or tablet.
During music listening sessions at home I usually setup my system for a certain output level and never touch it, unless I have to mute it.

 

[MTZ]

Thank you for your reply. It was most helpful.
The article about the topping D90se is also very interesting.

The yamaha lack's a remote to (fully passive).
That's no problem for me because i like to listen at medium levels, or i use the volume control in BubbleUPnp or Mconnect.

Regards,

Mark

 

[MerlinGS]

A very good "preamp", that includes Dirac Live, DAC and ADC (multiple digital and one analog input, 4 analog outputs), and crossover capabilities can be had for US $475 unbalanced and $550 for balanced. The MiniDSP Flex was very well reviewed by @amirm. The ability to use Dirac Live and a 2-way x-over is a great addition to most stereos. If one needs more than one analog input a selector such as the Nobsound Mc103 could be used, and if a phono is required, one could add either the $300 Cambridge Duo or the $635 Parks Puffin, if a digital output is desired (this phono preamp also includes a number of digital tools to modify the signal).

The negative of the above noted suggestion is too many boxes for some. The positive, excellent performance with tools such as DIrac Live and digital x-overs to improve the audio system within your room, in addition to the fun toys the Puffin offers (e.g. over 500 adjustable phono settings).

 

[rwortman]

Preamps can cheap or expensive depending on features, performance, and style. Thinking the cost of anything should equal the cost of its components implies that everyone at the factory and at the distributor and dealer works for free. That said, pricing is mostly determined by the market. Schiit and Emotiva aim at one segment of the market. Boulder and Mark Levinson at quite another.
People in Schiit’s market aren’t going to pay $10,000 for a preamp. People in the Mark Levinson market aren’t going to pay less. Not many people are going to pay Mark Levinson money for something that looks like a Schiit Saga, so the ML preamp is going to have much more functions and expensive casework.

Home audio equipment are both functional tools for music reproduction and luxury goods. The pretty cherry veneer on my PSB Imagine T2’s doesn’t make them sound better but not many people are going to pay thousands for speakers wrapped in cheap vinyl. A preamp is the control center and centerpiece of a multi-source sound system. My recently acquired Macintosh C49 can’t justify it’s price on sound quality alone. It does do everything I want a preamp to do and sounds and looks great while doing it. I made a choice 35 years ago to go down the path of separate preamps and power amps. Back then every real audio fan needed a turntable, a tuner, and one or more tape decks. Now one can have a world of music available from streaming. If all you want to is stream, you don’t need anything more than a DAC with a volume control and an amp.

 

[Angsty]

The Topping A90 Discrete is an example of a high-performing pre-amp that is well-priced at US $600 for what it does.

Topping A90 Discrete Review (Headphone Amp & Preamp)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the new Topping A90 Discrete balanced preamplifier and headphone amplifier. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $599. Announcement was supposed to be a few hours from now but one of the distributor already released it so here we go. As...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[MerlinGS]

The Topping A90 Discrete is an example of a high-performing pre-amp that is well-priced at US $600 for what it does.

Topping A90 Discrete Review (Headphone Amp & Preamp)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the new Topping A90 Discrete balanced preamplifier and headphone amplifier. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $599. Announcement was supposed to be a few hours from now but one of the distributor already released it so here we go. As...

www.audiosciencereview.com

It seems decent, but if one does not need a headphone amp, I think it is not that good a value considering the value proposition of a MiniDsp Flex. Analog input, multiple digital inputs, Bluetooth, parametric eq, Dirac Live, digital x-over, 4 analog outputs, and for less money (and available in balanced or unbalanced mode).

 

[Angsty]

It seems decent, but if one does not need a headphone amp, I think it is not that good a value considering the value proposition of a MiniDsp Flex. Analog input, multiple digital inputs, Bluetooth, parametric eq, Dirac Live, digital x-over, 4 analog outputs, and for less money (and available in balanced or unbalanced mode).

For 15 years, I've purchased only Bryston preamps and integrateds. I bought a Topping D70s DAC last year and was astounded at the value versus a Bryston BDA-2. The Topping A90 Discrete, paired with the D70s, is the first preamp I have seriously thought of as a successor to my Bryston BP25 in a more compact form factor.

Not getting rid of my Brystons anytime soon, but the Toppings have turned my head. The MiniDSP Flex wouldn't do it for me, but to each his own.

And, that's partially why preamps cost so much. Personal preferences can weigh even more heavily than pure performance metrics, especially if you plan to live with a component for a long time. Such preferences likely weigh more heavily for preamps than for DACs, since the preamp serves as the juncture for multiple components.

 

[nn_in]

On the lookout for a remote volume control with active pre (to set input output gains if possible ),XLR,/Rca combo to sit inbetween dac (Ares2) and Power amp (PA5- has no remote).In future would move to purifi power amp.

Freya S and Gustard P26 in the shortlist.

Pre90 is awesome but the input impedance is very low.

 

[Angsty]

A new option under US$1000…

SPARTAN 30 Headphone and Line Amplifier by Michael Fidler

Low noise headphone amplifier and line preamplifier, with balanced outputs, active volume control and linear power supply

michaelfidler.com

 

[restorer-john]

@Michael Fidler

That new Spartan 30 preamplifier of yours is gorgeous inside and out. A very well thought out and optioned design in every respect. Definitely a preamplifier people should be looking at.

Interesting remote placement of the relay snubber diodes.

 

[Michael Fidler]

@Michael Fidler

That new Spartan 30 preamplifier of yours is gorgeous inside and out. A very well thought out and optioned design in every respect. Definitely a preamplifier people should be looking at.

Interesting remote placement of the relay snubber diodes.

Thanks @restorer-john! Here's my logic regarding the placement of snubber diodes. I'd be interested to hear what you think...

When the relay switches on, the coil inductance prevents the fast rising edge of the coil voltage from causing a transient current in the ground plane (if the other side of the coil is connected to ground). If the reverse shunt diodes are placed locally, then the local ground plane current changes very rapidly as the flywheel current is bypassed locally. If the diodes are far away, then the local currents (close to amplifier references etc.) are much smoother and more benign.

There's also the question of moving all non-audio path components out of the way of the amplifier stages etc. to dedicate as much local space as possible to minimising loop areas/tightly grouping components.

 

[egellings]

One possible reason that a preamp may be quite an expensive item is that it is a component bought by people who have an above average interest in audio; i.e. audiophiles. They'll likely pay anything for the preamp of their dreams. A preamp is a boutique item, and hence can command a premium price. For someone satisfied with an all-in-one amplifier, the price for such a preamp would seem excessive simply because they don't want one. Disclaimer: My preamp is home-brewed.

 

[fpitas]

One possible reason that a preamp may be quite an expensive item is that it is a component bought by people who have an above average interest in audio; i.e. audiophiles. They'll likely pay anything for the preamp of their dreams. A preamp is a boutique item, and hence can command a premium price. For someone satisfied with an all-in-one amplifier, the price for such a preamp would seem excessive simply because they don't want one. Disclaimer: My preamp is home-brewed.

Also, even nutcases like me just don't need one anymore. I use an XLR switch box.

 

[restorer-john]

Thanks @restorer-john! Here's my logic regarding the placement of snubber diodes. I'd be interested to hear what you think...

When the relay switches on, the coil inductance prevents the fast rising edge of the coil voltage from causing a transient current in the ground plane (if the other side of the coil is connected to ground). If the reverse shunt diodes are placed locally, then the local ground plane current changes very rapidly as the flywheel current is bypassed locally. If the diodes are far away, then the local currents (close to amplifier references etc.) are much smoother and more benign.

My thoughts went both ways after looking at your layout. The inductance of the PCB traces from the relay coil back to to the shunt diode would create a decaying element, or like you say, bypassing locally creates a rapid drop/increase in those same traces.

Then I started thinking, what about the switch contacts, as they are clearly just switching DC to the relays and placing the snubber diode nearer them serves two purposes (the relay and the switch contacts).

Then I decided I was over thinking the whole thing because there wouldn't be switching transients in the audio signal anyway, so the job is done.

It's just such a lovely layout, I'd want one with a clear glass top.