Why are Genelec subwoofers so expensive, huge, heavy and ugly?

[Mort]

I asked this in the Genelec lounge and there was a short discussion, but I thought maybe it's fun as it's own thread.

Genelec subs are heavy, huge, ugly and expensive. Here is a list of their common models and a comparison with the 15" sub to SVS and Rythmik for fun. You can see how much larger, heavier and more expensive they are. (Trust me they are also ugly.)

First, don't get me wrong this is hardly a complaint. Sadly, if one wants to use SAM, the excellent Gelenec DSP and management tool, you have to buy a Genelec sub. I have five of these subwoofers in my house, so I have drunk plenty of the Kool-Aid. (In fact, I've moved on to stronger stuff.)

Second, forget price for the moment. Genelec command a premium price. If there is an advantage, it might be worth it.

But is there an advantage? Are these subs better? And why are these so big and heavy? We know it's a huge spiral sheet-metal open cylinder sandwiched between thick MDF, which makes it big and heavy. In this video (thank you @Pearljam5000 ) they claim the spiral enclosure subwoofer "acoustically has a very long reflex port with a large surface area so it's linear. The air changes direction very smoothly and slowly so it's very clean and has excellent linearity.' Does that make sense or bullshit? and ff it's so good, why aren't other manufacturers copying it or doing similar?

 

[Audio Science Pal]

... why aren't other manufacturers copying it or doing similar?

Because it makes them expensive, huge, heavy and unusual looking!

 

[LTig]

But is there an advantage? Are these subs better? And why are these so big and heavy? We know it's a huge spiral sheet-metal open cylinder sandwiched between thick MDF, which makes it big and heavy. In this video (thank you @Pearljam5000 ) they claim the spiral enclosure subwoofer "acoustically has a very long reflex port with a large surface area so it's linear. The air changes direction very smoothly and slowly so it's very clean and has excellent linearity.' Does that make sense or bullshit?

AFAIK Ports are tuned by length and size of cross section. Using a bigger cross section reduces air flow which becomes audible if high, but then you also need more length. Using the spiral gives you both.

I asked Genelec in 2006 why the 7060b had a rather weak power amp compared to many hifi subs. This the answer I got:

Some physics and acoustical background infos first:
The most essential property of a subwoofer is its capacity to move air. Each doubling of SPL (+6dB) needs twice the displacement and this does not depend on the type of enclosure used.
If we need 50cm3 at 100Hz for 110dB SPL then we need 1250cm3 at 20Hz. Now, the two main types of enclosure are the closed and vented box. The system efficiency is proportional to the size of the box, so the smaller the box, the lower the efficiency, and so the higher the amplifier rating for given SPL output.
Hence, as you say, we see tiny boxes with 1000W amplifiers. Their output can be same as that of a larger box with a 100W amplifier.

In the Genelec LSE range of subwoofers the enclosure is made from a strip of sheet metal which is bent to a spiral. The vent is formed between the rounds of the strip and the vent length can be as long as needed and it is at the perimeter of the enclosure without acute angles. The ends are carefully formed for proper termination. The spiral is tightened between two thick flat panels which form the sides (or front and rear) of the enclosure. So, the LSE subwoofers have quite large internal volume keeping at the same time very reasonable outer dimensions with extremely high efficiency due to the very long curved port.

and ff it's so good, why aren't other manufacturers copying it or doing similar?

You have to ask them.

 

[Mort]

Interestingly, the first reason they gave to explain the design was that it reduced storage and inventory space costs. By unrolling the inner stainless steel and stacking the MDF, they can store hundreds of subs in very small spaces.

 

[Oddball]

It's like Apple. Once in their grip don't complain about the cost. They apparently sound great, so what is to complain about?

 

[Mort]

They apparently sound great, so what is to complain about?

Ugly, Heavy, Huge and expensive.

 

[levimax]

Genelec subs are no doubt expensive but Genelec is a premium brand know for high quality, high performance and high prices. There is no reason to think their subs would be any different and they integrate semi-automatically with Genelec monitors . As far as performance goes bigger and heavier with a larger port area are all requirements for higher performance. Consumer subs optimize advertised extension and SPL per dollar and never mention distortion, thermal compression, or time domain issues (group delay, step response, etc.). I have not seen measurements of the Genelec subs but I would guess compared to the consumer subs they would have lower distortion, less thermal compression, less port chuffing, and better time domain behavior. On a dollar for dollar basis the consumer subs will outperform Genelec subs but if you factor in the integration utility, longevity, performance and resale value they may be not as expensive as they first appear.

 

[Oddball]

Ugly, Heavy, Huge and expensive.

Then I guess time to sell Gs. Many other options around.

 

[darth]

I figured I might as well try. Gave chatgpt a picture of my 7360A and asked it to make it look less ugly. This is what it came up with.

Similar prompt to Claude but it had a bit of a brain fart. After ages it came up with this

 

[Pearljam5000]

Their new sub looks pretty nice

 

[Mort]

Then I guess time to sell Gs. Many other options around.

Maybe you missed my point.

 

[Mort]

I have not seen measurements of the Genelec subs but I would guess compared to the consumer subs they would have lower distortion, less thermal compression, less port chuffing, and better time domain behavior.

This is certainly what I hope. Would be nice to get one independently measured.

 

[test1223]

I asked this in the Genelec lounge and there was a short discussion, but I thought maybe it's fun as it's own thread.

Genelec subs are heavy, huge, ugly and expensive. Here is a list of their common models and a comparison with the 15" sub to SVS and Rythmik for fun. You can see how much larger, heavier and more expensive they are. (Trust me they are also ugly.)

View attachment 538820

First, don't get me wrong this is hardly a complaint. Sadly, if one wants to use SAM, the excellent Gelenec DSP and management tool, you have to buy a Genelec sub. I have five of these subwoofers in my house, so I have drunk plenty of the Kool-Aid. (In fact, I've moved on to stronger stuff.)

Second, forget price for the moment. Genelec command a premium price. If there is an advantage, it might be worth it.

But is there an advantage? Are these subs better? And why are these so big and heavy? We know it's a huge spiral sheet-metal open cylinder sandwiched between thick MDF, which makes it big and heavy. In this video (thank you @Pearljam5000 ) they claim the spiral enclosure subwoofer "acoustically has a very long reflex port with a large surface area so it's linear. The air changes direction very smoothly and slowly so it's very clean and has excellent linearity.' Does that make sense or bullshit? and ff it's so good, why aren't other manufacturers copying it or doing similar?

They are good and not expensive at all for its quality. They presumably sound good use good materials. You get a good support and presumably a long lifetime and the ability for repairs. They are made in Europe with good conditions for the workers.

A nice look wasn't the goal and would make them more expensive and heavier in the process.

Weight is beneficial for good subwoofers, it indicates a sturdy enclosure with low amounts of resonances and ensures no movement with high excursions.

Compare them with the subwoofers you listed as inexpensive and you will find that they will also sound a bit differently, presumably better in some categories.

If you prefer other brands why bother?

If you think you can do it better, start a business with cheap, nice looking, lightweight Genelec like subwoofers...

 

[CDMC]

Thiele Small parameters are physics rules. Enclosure size, extension, and efficiency are all tradeoffs. Pick which is most important to you and be a Richard about how anyone’s choice that isn’t the same as yours.

 

[Chanur]

It's like Apple. Once in their grip don't complain about the cost. They apparently sound great, so what is to complain about?

6k and a 150 pound sub to use room correction for starters.

 

[Chrispy]

Who cares?

 

[Chanur]

Who cares?

Prospective customers.

 

[Chrispy]

Prospective customers.

Of course, but what do they base their decisions on? Why would these overpriced subs become worthwhile?

 

[Sokel]

I actually like the looks!
It's not yet another boring big box, it has a character of its own.

And lets not forget that they pair with speakers not exactly famous about their beauty

 

[Pearljam5000]

@Mort I know someday you'll get this sub