Keith_W
Master Contributor
Yup, car audio amplifiers.
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Why are active crossovers uncommon in home audio?
- Thread starter Sweefu
- Start date
Yup, car audio amplifiers.
kind of crazy that car audio DSP is a lot cheaper and a lot easier to sue than home stuff considering the limitations they have to overcome.
crossovers, time alignment, phase adjust, full 36 band parametric EQ with selectable filter types, all pass filters and a usually easy to use interface all for under $1000 in an all in one unit or in separate units.
crossovers, time alignment, phase adjust, full 36 band parametric EQ with selectable filter types, all pass filters and a usually easy to use interface all for under $1000 in an all in one unit or in separate units.
Wow if I could afford to ATM, I would have one drop shipped to Amir to test, if high SQ measuring seems perfect for my needsThis one's not cheap but not thousands.
K231 Stereo 3-Way Active Crossover
The K231 Stereo Electronic Crossover significantly improves the audio quality of your sound system by separating the high, mid and low frequency sounds using ultra low noise, high precision active filter circuits. This allows the use of a separate power amplifier channel for each speaker driver...sublimeacoustic.com
Not sure how it measures (I won't part with mine long enough to send it to Amir) but it sounds quiet and clean in my setup.
except for the fact it's AC-powered, but at such low consumption a small sine wave inverter might be worth it.
Any feedback (from anyone) on comparing this unit to Minidsp "C-DSP 8x12 V2" ? about the same price...
Not a car application, and not interested in purely chasing numbers for their own sake, but audible SQ is my top priority
Can you reco any high SQ ones ones that include DSP ideally full featured for xover / bass management plus say clean 300+W RMS at 4ohm
better than Polk D4000.4 I hope
Keith_W
Master Contributor
Sorry, I don't know anything about car audio. You might want to try a car audio forum, or DIYAudio.
Can you (or anyone) reco a decent Car Audio forum? IOW SQ oriented...
Helix by Audiotec Fischer makes excellent SQ car amplifiers with built in DSP and also a variety of stand alone DSP's that also have digital input, BT streaming and available volume controls
Arc Audio also makes car audio state of the art DSP's and amps with built in DSP
JL Audio (now Garmin) also makes good amps with built in DSP. they have licensed the SMAART software for use in the amps and you can use the DSP software with the SMAART adaptation by download.
Audison also has amps with built in DSP. Amir tested one before.
these are generally the ones with the best DSP's and are well regarded in the car audio world.
other manufacturers also include Goldhorn and Zapco
all of them will let you download and install full versions of the DSP software and you can usually use them in "demo" mode where it mimics your amp or dsp of choice
Thanks so much for those recos @vactor of brands / car amps with active xover / DSP.
Can you also recommend good discussion forums where others with experience and knowledge of those makers / products hang out?
I have not been happy with the level of discourse in most Car Audio subs I've visited so far
Can you also recommend good discussion forums where others with experience and knowledge of those makers / products hang out?
I have not been happy with the level of discourse in most Car Audio subs I've visited so far
Keith_W
Master Contributor
I don't know why you want an amp with built-in DSP. Like I said before, DSP should be applied to the entire signal and not to specific channels alone. Subs are already high latency, if you add more latency with DSP then it will sound disconnected from the mains, or "slow". You need to be able to add latency to the mains to match the sub. And this is not going to be your only problem - measurement and designing filters will be more difficult. It's not impossible, but it's not something I suggest a beginner should try. DSP is already difficult, there is no need to make it more difficult than it already is.
I know that you can install a MiniDSP in a car. Some models are DC. It might be simpler to just get a car power amp and a suitable MiniDSP?
I know that you can install a MiniDSP in a car. Some models are DC. It might be simpler to just get a car power amp and a suitable MiniDSP?
Understatement of the year, lol.
the DIYMA forum is one of the best and pretty active. lots of pro installers, DIY'ers and competitors. dive right on in!
no forums are perfect. personalities and philosophies sometimes clash. but overall, diyma is pretty good. for the most part, you will get in depth answers to questions. sometimes though you still get the non helpful types that say "that won't work" or similar contentless answers. but overall you will get enthusiasts who want to help you learn.
in a car, most people are using the dsp for all channels. yes filters themselves can add latency, but due to the car constraints and built in imperfections, that latency is generally pretty far down on the list of ails we want to cure. shaping speaker response in the install is critical, and only a dsp can do that to any degree of replicability and efficiency.
My use case is not "a car", and my project is evolving stepwise, I can only spend so much per quarter.
I am trying to first manage crossovers' FR, if time domain issues prove to be a real problem AND cannot be solved without DSP then I'll need to bite that bullet.
The "overall" bass management is so far to be handled by Outlaw ICBM-1, but that only offers HPF per channel, which is fine for the LS50s Front pair, Center mono and Rear surround.
The LPF is "stacked" from all inputs, only sent to the bass output (stereo or mono)
Therefore offering no BPF for the "basstand boxen" to be built for stereo mid-bass reinforcement, up to maybe 200Hz maybe higher
I may not even need separate "true sub" (mono sum non-directional) if those boxen go deep enough with SPL, in which case maybe BPF not even needed
Only if that IS needed do I need to look for "another layer" of bass management.
And even if that is needed, DSP is only one alternative way to go.
By having it included in the amp(s) at little to no extra cost, I can test that tool as needed, or leave it disabled without having thrown scarce funds away.
I am trying to first manage crossovers' FR, if time domain issues prove to be a real problem AND cannot be solved without DSP then I'll need to bite that bullet.
The "overall" bass management is so far to be handled by Outlaw ICBM-1, but that only offers HPF per channel, which is fine for the LS50s Front pair, Center mono and Rear surround.
The LPF is "stacked" from all inputs, only sent to the bass output (stereo or mono)
Therefore offering no BPF for the "basstand boxen" to be built for stereo mid-bass reinforcement, up to maybe 200Hz maybe higher
I may not even need separate "true sub" (mono sum non-directional) if those boxen go deep enough with SPL, in which case maybe BPF not even needed
Only if that IS needed do I need to look for "another layer" of bass management.
And even if that is needed, DSP is only one alternative way to go.
By having it included in the amp(s) at little to no extra cost, I can test that tool as needed, or leave it disabled without having thrown scarce funds away.
I am after a solution where the bass management is part of the power amp, and I also was amazed at how rare this is in the home audiophile market.
Fortunately the use case is DC power, off grid so I CAN just use mobile audio gear, but I not only need decent watts & amps but want good objective SQ
I came across the Polk PA-D4000.4 live the features, but need "a bit" more current / power into 8Ω (stable below 4Ω) and would also like better SQ esp SINAD
Is JL Audio really the bees' knees? pricey! and no, I'd rather avoid separate line-level DSP at least for now.
I started this thread
ISO DC-powered but SQ high current power amps w/bass-mgmnt
In search of reco's for a 5.2 system, main pair being OG LS50, so likely adding a pair of mid-to-bass reinforcement boxen depending how high FR the subs go (not that relevant here ) Just as an example for comparison, I came across the 4-channel Polk Audio PA-D4000. 125W RMS x 4 at 4Ω, 200W @...
please feel free to answer there or here as you like, TIA!
Thanks I'll give that a try
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