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Who would you consider to be an Ethical Manufacturer in the Audio Business?

MaxBuck

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Elon Musk is an idiot.
I understand it's au courant to claim billionaires who've made their own fortunes are "idiots." I think it might be a good idea to rethink that.

I don't happen to share many political opinions with Musk, but he's a brilliant visionary in many areas. Maybe not so much social media.
 

Trudius

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A farmer working on barren land may very well be a bad person. Just too stupid to inflict harms on a large scale.
Just because someone is a farmer doesn't mean the person is good.
Make him or her a prison guard, and the person may inflict horrible damages upon prisoners, when given orders.

Prison experiments revealed that most people are either bad or evil. They follow evil orders instead of their own conscience.

If you want to know the current human condition, conduct prison experiments again.

Humans are not inherently evil. But, in the current human condition, most people are evil. Humans are programmable bio machines. They are programmed wrong. I don't know how long it will take to fix humans.
Going back to the thread what brand of audio do you consider "ethical" Dr. Freud?
 

Trudius

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I understand it's au courant to claim billionaires who've made their own fortunes are "idiots." I think it might be a good idea to rethink that.

I don't happen to share many political opinions with Musk, but he's a brilliant visionary in many areas. Maybe not so much social media.
Bill Gates used to be in that situation in the late 1990s, though Windows was in the dump then. He might be in a similar situation as Elon nowadays.
 
D

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what brand of audio do you consider "ethical" Dr. Freud?
I don't have names. As I wrote, those that treat money as financial obstacle to developing audio resources. Understandably, they want to maintain certain levels of comfort. But, they don't treat money and comfort and profits as the end goal.
 

Trudius

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Teslas may or may not be great cars, but Musk isn't responsible. He bought into the company, but he did not design any of the cars (he has no such skills). And since he's joined the company it's had big problems. And today we know that Twitter has lost half its value, and continues to lose money.

He at the least implied that he designed the Roadster. When it was pointed out that this was demonstrably untrue (he has no degree in engineering), he changed his story to say he "led" the team.

Musk bought into Tesla. He is an investor. Do not believe his self-hype.
I am not a believer in Elon's hype, but the hype is also pushed by others, including the underwriters of his acquisition of Twitter (~$13 billion). A well known manufacturer of speakers said that when he attended the Germany audio show last year the sole American brand of cars in Munich was Tesla. The company is expanding its manufacturing, I would be surprised if Tesla was not having big issues with growth (supply lines, manufacturing, regulations and so on).
 

ex audiophile

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Yet another vote for Benchmark. I've contacted (pestered) Rory countless times and always hear back almost immediately with a thoughtful and knowledgeable response. He has never tried to sell me anything. In fact when I was desperate to justify a second AHB2 he said basically, you don't need a second one but if you're determined to buy one I'll be glad to sell you one lol.
I've also contacted their service department and gotten rapid and expert responses. I recently sent in my LA4 for a firmware upgrade. When it was there they replaced/updated a main board at no charge; the old one was not defective they just wanted me to have the latest version. The work was done in one day and shipped later that same day. Total cost: $50 plus shipping.
Seriously, these days where are you going to find that level of service and expertise?

If only they would produce something to bass manage/EQ I'd be all over it.
 

fpitas

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Elon Musk is largely a high-level manager for his companies. He oversees his companies. That's all he does.
The Twitter debacle seems to argue differently. There, he seems to be a guy that just can't stop shooting his own foot.
 

mhardy6647

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fpitas

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mhardy6647

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I never liked Twitter, to be honest. And I'm not sure I even care about his bizarre politics. He's just running a viable business into the dirt.
I've basically ignored Twitter -- but, yes, that he is.
Maybe there's a hifi company that he'd enjoy helming.

Wait! I just got one of those wonderful, awful, Grinchly ideas!

Grinch-Wide-Horizontal-Opening-900x600.jpg


 

fpitas

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I've basically ignored Twitter -- but, yes, that he is.
Maybe there's a hifi company that he'd enjoy helming.

Wait! I just got one of those wonderful, awful, Grinchly ideas!

Grinch-Wide-Horizontal-Opening-900x600.jpg


I think he ought to buy PS Audio.
 

thecheapseats

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..."Some voice their speakers to be more like studio monitors, which intentionally heighten the listeners’ awareness of potential recording flaws—a lousy recipe for speakers whose first job is to deliver the thrill and beauty of music and soundtracks."...
this made me chuckle... not at you - but at a concept it conveys, generally... maybe it's just me - likely so...
 

mhardy6647

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I think he ought to buy PS Audio.
There be an arena of brands that would qualify -- but, yeah, PS Audio would be good.
Elon & Paul might get along really well; who knows?
 

Sokel

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Another good honesty hint (for the ones making power amps) is the old good clipping indicator that even 100$ interfaces have.
It would be a good eye opener but not sure very profitable to the ones declaring "50watts is plenty".
Trivial,really.
 

concorde1

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I personally exclude a lot of manufacturers with class-leading products, because their top end products are ridiculously priced.

For example:
Audeze (4,500 USD for headphones)
DCA (4,500 USD for headphones)
Sennheiser (55,000 USD for headphones)
Perlisten (8,000 USD for a small bookshelf and charge 1,600 USD more to change the goddamn finish)
KEF (9,000 USD for a small bookshelf)
Revel (small Gem2 ~10,000 USD)
JBL (I believe they have speakers exceeding 100,000 USD)
Genelec (not far behind with the 1236A)

I would hesitate to purchase from them.

Sure, some people buy these "flagship" products but I don't think it's right. Most of the companies have reasonably priced products too but this doesn't redeem them in my eyes.

In terms of value some manufacturers I'd include which make good products are: Topping, March Audio, Benchmark, RME, Arendal Sound. Yes they make expensive products but they're not off target by multiples, and they perform like they cost.

Since I'm looking for some new headphones and subwoofers I'm somewhat interested in Ollo and SVS, too.
 

VintageFlanker

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Focal, somehow...

Not that "ethical" when it comes to strong marketing claims, yet their speaker still deliver good to excellent objective performance, so I'd say that's fair.

Now, 100% of their home Hi-Fi/passive speakers are actually made in France, even the cheapest (and 15 years old) Chorus 700 line. Support is top notch in my experience and they have spare parts at very reasonable cost, when out of warranty period (for instance, I bought them an Aria 900 mid/woofer for 75€, 1 day shipping included). I knew a couple of their employees and they both told me to be happy about working conditions, atmosphere, wages etc

 

anmpr1

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It really shouldn't be like that and I don't know why Revel/Harman/Samsung thinks its a clever idea to screw over their customers when they need help, especially after only a decade or so.

When JBL was its own company, everything was made in California, and they had a policy of replacing faulty components gratis, even after the factory warranty had expired, as long as the driver was still in stock, which it usually was--for a long time. If the driver was out of production, they'd advise you of an alternate substitution, albeit admitting that there would be a sonic difference. JBL had a strong dealer presence, and an equally strong support network.

Today, no one even knows where JBL speakers are made. Try and get a part. LOL

I personally exclude a lot of manufacturers with class-leading products, because their top end products are ridiculously priced.

JBL (I believe they have speakers exceeding 100,000 USD) I would hesitate to purchase from them.

JBL Everest is retails for 60 to 70 large. Expensive, but that's a distance from your 100 thousand dollars. As a limited run item, and considering its overall construction and parts quality, its finish customization of cabinetry, along with a suitable dealer markup, I don't think anyone would claim it's an unreasonable retail charge. As above, it's difficult to find out where JBL loudspeakers come from, but one blog indicated that Everest is made in the US. I sort of doubt that, but if it is true, that would certainly eat up a large portion of the retail price. Look at the Klipsch Heritage speakers that are hand made in a wood shop--those are through the roof price-wise, and they aren't even made in California, but Arkansas.

Obviously anything stamped out by the tens of thousands in an Indonesian factory isn't going to have the same unit price as something handmade in the US.

As far as not buying because a company makes a wide range of products at a wide range of price points? Think of cars. You can buy a VW Jetta for bottom of the barrel pricing, or a money's no object Bugatti. Same company. Want an SUV? GM makes the 20K Trax, or a top tier Escalade for one hundred and fifty large. Like wine? A liter of Hearty Burgundy will set you back an Alexander Hamilton, but Gallo's J Vineyard Pinot Noir Reserve costs ten times as much.

With consolidation, and the push for market penetration, that's just the way it is, these days.
 

OldHvyMec

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I'm going to take the side of disliked dealers/manufactures. Business practice is the only thing I look at. Customer reviews that I can verify and or
have personally encountered. I look closely at seller and buyer ratings. They tell a story.

I don't care for 5 dealers/manufactures and with good reason.

1. RFWAVES2. It's in Perth AU. A purchase of two NC500 builds with transformers and optional opamp boards. He shipped the two heavy
monoblocks stacked on top of each other 4 months after they were paid and shipped the 55lb package on the slow boat from China.
When they arrive they were tweaked BAD! Transformers were loose and flopping. Case was bent from over-torquing the transformers
with no bolt nut stops. He left the original opamp inline with the new board he added.
They lasted all of 20 minutes before going into protect mode, shutting down, low/high, you name it they did it.

Resolution: "Sue me if you don't like it". I won't even go to Australia because of that. The legal system is more corrupt than Spain or the US, that is
saying something. 10K minimum for a lawyer. BTW he is still doing business on EBay. EBay has a pretty shady rating system too.

2. AudioGon. I won't do business with them. You have to log on to see a rating of a buyer or seller. They have 100% or 0% but no bad reviews.
They launder their negative reviews by erasing them. They remove any question about shady deals on their site. They willfully participate in
letting their members participate in unfounded character assassination of other members. Their moderator, (they only have one main one and one
on the weekends) and their VERY old and limited site has deleted most of the great information while keeping the junk. They use to have an
OK exchange of older more seasoned members. A lot have passed away, many have blackballed the place and very few of the old guard remain.
Sad, but true.

Side note: I see Amir correcting some of the worst information (at least) at AG. He sure keeps a cool head. I can't do it over at AG. To many ass holes.
One place where BANNING people is an olympic sport. If you ask to have your name removed, (like I did) they add "suspended" by your name.
I did the same at two other sites. "Best" because of Viking Acoustic and AH because of their constant new member bashing.
They are worse that AG and that is really saying something.

Side note 2: I really don't like a comparison of AVR/AVPs to Stereo equipment and then going on about AVR/AVP measurements. One is for sound
effects and one is for music. An AV will work for music. PERIOD! It is not the best, BUT it's not bad.
Simple score 6 out of 10 for the best AVR doing stereo. You might squeeze a 7 if it's a great AVP. It's kind of like trying to make chicken soup out of
chicken $hit.

3. Viking Acoustic. I need not say more.

4. VTL. If you have ever done business with them you know what I'm talking about. They offer no advice, no support other than "send it in" and their
prices reflect what snobs they really are. I gave up on them when having to deal with Bea on several occasions. Everytime it was "send it in" and every time
they recommended new valves, upgrades to make it better and nice fat bill. Fast turn around though. Try to get a schematic. LOL It's like chicken lips for
sale. What's that? They are less than 40 miles from me.

5. Salesman; there is one that just turns me off. HE sells STUFF it's all very expensive stuff. He changes gear like I change underwear and his boxers cost
20-150k a pop. He doesn't understand the basics. ROOM, electrical, decoupling, placement. 1-20K PC. 20K speaker cables and he has followers.
He has a pay per view approach to his services which include "Look what I have for sale, It sure sounds good" "Let's have a 20.00 dollar beer."
I think he started out with Mcintosh C1100 and all the goodies. It went down from there for me, but up in cost. Everything was pure
opinion and based on what it cost. If what things cost is a measure of quality, sensibility and personal preference, I'm ok with that.
What he paid for a power amp, I paid for a house! Actually he paid 100k more. I paid 39K for a home one time. I still have it.

Recommended: Mcintosh is probably the best service. Accuphase is good in most countries. Cary's valve gear is fun and their service department is helpful
for the DIY guy or for tech help in the US. I was working on site for 3 months in Brazil. I had a Mcintosh valve amp serviced and a voltage change. They
turned it around and got it back to me in less than 3 week in the 90s. Accuphase just makes good gear. I love the Tannoy/Accuphase combo.
Nord Acoustics; I've had a relationship with Nord and Sparco Labs since they started. Straight shooter, no BS kind of guys.
Speakers: DIY are the best for the money. I'm not paying 39K for Jensen Imperials when I can make a better cabinet than 99% of what I WILL buy.
GR research; They have some very nice kits and some not so good ones. LOL Some of the products he pushes are a little oily so to speak. LOL
I get along with most people. I'm more like Danny in how he was trained OJT vs scholastic achievements. I'm pretty sure by the 100s of courses
I was required to take, accounted for something through the years other than a binder I have some where saying "I was smart". They said I could
fix things too. I wish they would have fixed it instead. :cool:

I'm pretty common to many I suppose.
My chickens would disagree.
The goat is on the fence.
goat-balanced-fence-636192.jpg
 
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