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Who invited Milton to the party?

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How far inland would you have to go in the Netherlands to be safe from coastal flooding if none of the counter measured existed?
Quite horrifying.
 
We had a very long coastline in the southwest that we shortened by closing estuaries after 1953. The Zuiderzee coastline was similarly shortened after the construction of the Afsluitdijk almost a century ago. Before that, there were many floodings of the old towns like Volendam, Hoord, ENkhuizen.

About half the country is below sea level, so some 100 km inland, or a bit more, depending on where you are. But even in supposedly high ground such as where we are, we are only about 1 meter above sea level. We are on a ridge that was pushed forward during the last ice age. A thousand years ago people north of us were living on little islands just above wetlands that were periodically flooded. When in the twelfth and thirteenth century European population started to grow people began to construct dikes to drain the land for cultivation. So we have a lot of small thirteenth century churches built bij these new communities. This reclamation came to a temporary halt when in the early fourteenth century the climate deteriorated, followed by the Black Death, the big yersinia pestis epdemic that killed about half the European population.
Reclamation has continued ever since, such as in the seventeenth century in the polders north of Amsterdam, using windmills, and financed by capitalist merchants from Amsterdam. One consequence of lowering the water table has been that the soil shrinks, so by pumping out the water we are continuously sinking. Land that was once above sea level no longer is. This will be the largest challenge when the sea level continues to rise. I am sure the same is happening in coastal Florida as well. I know from Dutch consulting engineers that this is happening in Indonesia's capital Djakarta at a very rapid rate.
Your country has a long history of coping with Mother Nature and living where one wishes. Fascinating.
 
I may have missed an update, but are Ray and family okay?
 
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The amount of rainfall we experieced here was incredible, I've never seen our lake this high in 20 years.
Our marina boathouse is flooded and the pier completely submerged.
Boat ram used to begin about where that "Beware of Gators" sign is.
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Fair enough - I forgot to realise I might be talking to Netherlanders :D

But - Florida has between 5 and 40 times the coastline of Netherlands??? (depending on which figures are comparable.)

Plus those dykes would have to be built all over the most valuable property in the state** - beachfront.

Not going to happen.


**Though it might well not be the most valuable for long. :(
You only need to cover parts that have population centers and that isn't high enough by itself. Half our country is below sealevel, most of Florida is. So seems easy to protect by doing some engineering at a large enough scale.

But you can't stop people from being stupid I guess.
 
You only need to cover parts that have population centers and that isn't high enough by itself. Half our country is below sealevel, most of Florida is. So seems easy to protect by doing some engineering at a large enough scale.

But you can't stop people from being stupid I guess.

If there was a law against being stupid we would all be in jail from time to time. ;)
 
How far inland would you have to go in the Netherlands to be safe from coastal flooding if none of the counter measured existed?
About 100km. I live over an hour's drive from the coast and am below sea level. The big storm that initiated the Deltawerken also surged that deep (the water goes up the rivers). It was a small part of the country, but it had open waterways. The rest of the country is defended by dunes (and the reclamation of the Zuiderzee). If you build in front of them you are just asking to get fucked.

But the Netherlands literally wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Dutch engineering. There's a saying that God created the world in 6 days and on the 7th the Dutch created the Netherlands.
 
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It's really about expectations. When you get the government involved in anything there's lots of paperwork and rules to follow in determining how aid is distributed. If you fall within the appropriate group the amount of help is amazing but neighbors who compare what they received may not understand the criteria and see inequity. Even still, FEMA is not there to rebuild houses or provide comprehensive aid like a good insurance policy can. The agency's primary focus is on making homes safe and habitable, not fully restoring them to pre-disaster condition. Stress from the disaster is hard is enough. Aid that doesn't fit your idea of appropriate can easily cause frustration.

People need to think twice about where they live. Pay attention to flood zones and how global warming might impact the future of the location. If you still need to live there, budget for HUGE insurance premiums or be prepared to lose everything. As disasters become common, less funding and insurance coverage will be available to protect them.
I was just reading an article in the Washington Post on how the risk of such disasters is impacting property values in Florida. That is exactly what any economist would indeed predict. Over here, and in an obviously far more regulated environment, authorities are beginning to ban construction in some areas too close to rivers prone to flooding, and are taking other measures as well. In 1993 and 1995 we had some pretty bad river flooding in the south of the country. After that, extensive work was done to prevent such things happening again, including designating some agricultural land as flooding areas to collect the water. In 2021 there was flooding again in the region, and very badly in neigbouring Germany and Belgium with a lot of fatalities in those countries, but not in the Netherlands. Yes, there was some damage, but this time nothing dramatic. So taking serious preventive measures actually works, and saves money in the long term.
 
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About 100km. I live over an hour's drive from the coast and am below sea level. The big storm that initiated the Deltawerken also surged that deep. It was a small part of the country, but it had open waterways. The rest of the country is defended by dunes (and the reclamation of the Zuiderzee). If you build in front of them you are just asking to get fucked.

But the Netherlands literally wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Dutch engineering. There's a saying that God created the world in 6 days and on the 7th the Dutch created the Netherlands.
And of course those dunes are almost entirely owned by the state, and you are not allowed to build there, with a few unfortunate exceptions. As a result, they are are also beautiful nature reserves. No beachhouses here, only a few coastal fishing villages. The dunes right along the beach are in fact mostly closed to people. Foreign tourists often do not understand the signs, and think they can still just wander in.
 
I don't understand how it caused so much flooding. The US is the wealthiest nation in the world, I'm sure you can stop any significant flooding from happening. Wind you can't stop, but stopping the ocean is certainly doable.
For many years the civil engineering department at Delft Technical University (where all our engineers in this field are trained) had a scale model of New Orleans, to study what might happen. They thought this was the most extreme case of where things might go badly wrong if nothing much was done, so it was worth working on various scenarios. And indeed, Katrina showed that their predictions were spot on. Coastal defenses had been designed for a flooding risk of once every ten years, where the traditional Dutch norm for much of the country was once every thousand years (and much stricter for high value coastal cities like Rotterdam and the Hague). In fact, recent research by Deltares, the leading Dutch think tank for this, has shown that due to climate change in many parts of the world flooding risk is likely to increase ten fold in the not too distant future: https://www.deltares.nl/en/news/flo...in-many-places-over-the-world-within-30-years
 
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In the last 100 years, Florida has had about 45 deaths per year from hurricanes. More than half before 1936, so more like 20 per year.

Florida has almost 20 traffic deaths in two days.

People worry about the wrong things.
 
In the last 100 years, Florida has had about 45 deaths per year from hurricanes. More than half before 1936, so more like 20 per year.

Florida has almost 20 traffic deaths in two days.

People worry about the wrong things.
It’s like plane crashes. They are horrifying.

But the US has the equivalent of an airliner crash twice a week in car crashes.
 
It’s like plane crashes. They are horrifying.

But the US has the equivalent of an airliner crash twice a week in car crashes.
Most everything we do in life has an element of risk.
I'm well aware of that each time I jump on my motorcycle and when I moved to FL.
Such is life in the big city. (and small towns) ;)
 
But the US has the equivalent of an airliner crash twice a week in car crashes.

Thats why steering wheels should be fitted with a 6" spike from the central boss, I bet the deaths from "so called accidents" would plummet
 
In the last 100 years, Florida has had about 45 deaths per year from hurricanes. More than half before 1936, so more like 20 per year.

Florida has almost 20 traffic deaths in two days.

People worry about the wrong things.
This is such a logical fallacy. Does a traffic death also wipe entire neighbourhoods off the map?
 

How much rain fell in the Treasure Coast after Hurricane Milton?​

Rainfall amounts on the Treasure Coast were fairly normal before they started to increase Tuesday because of the approaching storm, which then skewed the total to be above normal for the time period of Oct. 1-10, said Cassie Leahy, a meteorologist with the National Weather Service in Melbourne.

The measurements were taken at different times on Thursday morning, reflecting total rainfall for the previous 48 hours. No official data was available for Stuart, but the NWS had a breakdown of unofficial sites in each county.

Vero Beach rainfall totals​

  • Now: 12.92 inches
  • Normal: 2.2 inches
  • Above average: 10.72 inches

Fort Pierce rainfall totals​






  • Now: 7.41 inches
  • Normal: 2.03 inches
  • Above average: 5.37 inches

Indian River County rainfall totals​

  • 1 SW Winter Beach: 10.05 inches at 9:38 a.m.
  • Vero Beach: 9.89 inches at 5:45 a.m.
  • Vero Beach 3.5 SSW: 9.79 inches at 7 a.m.
  • Vero Beach 3.4 W: 9.49 inches at 6 a.m.
  • Vero Beach: 9.41 inches at 9:53 a.m.
  • Salt Flat: 7.66 inches at 10:30 a.m.
  • Vero Beach 2.5 S: 7.59 inches at 8 a.m.
  • Vero Beach: 7.33 inches at 10:30 a.m.
  • Sebastian 2.0 SSW: 7.20 inches at 8 a.m.
  • Sebastian: 6.95 inches at 10:30 a.m.
  • Vero Beach 6.0 S: 6.90 inches at 7 a.m.
  • Sebastian: 6.09 inches at 10:36 a.m.
  • Wabasso Beach Park: 5.44 inches at 10:40 a.m.
  • Vero Beach: 5.20 inches at 9:35 a.m.
  • Vero Beach: 5.15 inches at 10:38 a.m.
  • Vero Beach 11.9 NW: 4.97 inches at 7 a.m.
  • 1 NE Vero Lake Estates: 4.53 inches at 10:38 a.m.
  • Fellsmere 4.3 ESE: 4.21 inches at 6 a.m.
  • Orchid: 3.60 inches at 10:33 a.m.
  • Sebastian: 3.13 inches at 9:33 a.m.
  • Sebastian: 2.17 inches at 9:55 a.m.
  • Fellsmere 3.8 N: 2.14 inches at 7 a.m.
 
After a cold winter here at home when the sun shines @ ~12C (54F) we all put on our shorts and T-shirts and walk about like it is warm...LoL.
A lot of people here are in short pants and a wind breaker with a short sleeve T-Shirt or Polo shirt on at those temperatures.
But, my wife & I both are in long Pants, long sleeve shirts and at least one more layer or a jacket at that temperature.
 
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