Who do we trust?

[SIY]

Well, what's being sold here isn't sound, really, it's a fetish object. (phrase stolen from Nelson Pass)

 

[Sancus]

Well, what's being sold here isn't sound, really, it's a fetish object. (phrase stolen from Nelson Pass)

Yeah I think high prices actually work in favor of weird-looking, garbage sounding speakers. I figure there's a ton of margin built into these, so the logic shifts from "lets try to make a good product that we can sell to thousands of people for $500/pair" to "well, if we make $40K per unit sold, we only really need to pressure a couple dozen people per year in show rooms into buying these and we're good."

It becomes more about psychological manipulation and mythology, and less about what the product actually does.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Well, what's being sold here isn't sound, really, it's a fetish object. (phrase stolen from Nelson Pass)

Karl Marx via Nelson Pass, actually

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

There are fads and wants that are beyond comprehension. THe Zu's speakers is one, I have heard one and can't for the life of me understand the appeal... It sounded like a Bose Wave Radio... driven by Tubes gear and a TT. Those in attendance resorted to all kind of weird description of PRATT and pace and musicality... For most of them (me included) and they agreed in private on that , it sounded like a Bose Wave Radio.

I have made peace with the notion that there is no accounting for taste. When I looked at the Zu frequency response and having heard a Zu , I am reminded of a current fashion fad, that of the "Ugly Sneaker: The most famous brand in this sector has to be Balenciaga ...this model price is $845

That, people is a $845 sneakers. At least it doesn't purport to make you run faster or to allow to jump higher .. heck! there is no athletic reference ... It just happen to cost $845... That is what it is bought for.. For audio gear there has to have some kind of rationalization of justification ... In essence however the price, the sticker price is justification enough for many audiophiles to buy certain products. Too many.

 

[Purité Audio]

Zu are perhaps the worst, pushed hard by Audio Note UK .
Keith

 

[jazzendapus]

As for speakers, there is flat and flat. No speaker measures remotely as flat is an amplifier, let alone a DAC. To be inaudible, deviations should be within +/- 0.2 dB and that is quite simply impossible for speakers.

Neumann would like a word with you.

 

[margrave]

Whom do I trust?
Me. Period.

 

[Tom C]

Neumann would like a word with you.

That actually looks to me what F. Toole hopes for the future. But the measured output is a composite of the DSP, bi-amps, and the speaker. But not the speaker alone.

 

[edechamps]

the measured output is a composite of the DSP, bi-amps, and the speaker.

…which is exactly what you'd want, because what matters in the end is the response of the end-to-end system as a whole, not the individual response of its constituent parts.

 

[MattHooper]

Two things I never trust:

1. Reviewers- ironic, coming from me, but true. "Reviewers" extol the sonic virtues of silver wire, special rocks, LED "noise harvesters," and all kinds of goofy things. So I'm supposed to believe them about loudspeakers?

Understandable.

For a little while I did reviewing for an on-line mag. It was a totally subjectivist mag, but I had refused to "review" things like cables or even amps...I stuck only to speakers.

As to "trusting" a reviewer, while there are obvious liabilities involved in subjective reviewing, I actually find it entertaining and, often enough for me, useful. Once I've found a reviewer who seems to "hear" like I do, or is simply excellent at translating what they percieve to the written word, I've found the reviews helpful in pointing towards products I may like. Ideally the reviewer can be a pair of "extended ears" for the reader, when everything is working right.

I was gratified that while I was reviewing quite a number of people contacted me to say they'd either auditioned the speaker in question before, or after they read my review, and that it sounded "exactly as described in the review."

I think there can be enough convergence to be useful in describing the sound of hi fi systems. Often my friend who still reviews hi end audio gear will invite me over when he's been listening to a new speaker (especially if he's concerned by one or another characteristics). Without telling me what he thinks, he'll ask me my impressions, I'll give them, zeroing in on any characteristics/colorations etc and almost always confirms and aligns with how he would describe them.

 

[Tom C]

Neumann would like a word with you.

Has anyone heard these? Is there a spinorama?

 

[Thomas_A]

My first post here and I have just one question regarding the "ruler-flat" on axis response as many claim to be a neutral response. My view is that ruler flat is not the goal if you want a neutral phantom center. This is due to that the speakers are situated at an angle. This also according to Shirley et al. So a compromise needs to be done in the region of 1-4 kHz, but the compensations are small within 2 dB.

Comments on that?

 

[andreasmaaan]

My first post here and I have just one question regarding the "ruler-flat" on axis response as many claim to be a neutral response. My view is that ruler flat is not the goal if you want a neutral phantom center. This is due to that the speakers are situated at an angle. This also according to Shirley et al. So a compromise needs to be done in the region of 1-4 kHz, but the compensations are small within 2 dB.

Comments on that?

The music is mixed on speakers that are situated on said angle.* The compensation is built-in by the time you get the master.

*Notwithstanding circle-of-confusion issues, ofc.

 

[Thomas_A]

The music is mixed on speakers that are situated on said angle.* The compensation is built-in by the time you get the master.

*Notwithstanding circle-of-confusion issues, ofc.

So you mean there is a standard compensation curve applied during mixing? I don't think that is normally done.

 

[andreasmaaan]

So you mean there is a standard compensation curve applied during mixing? I don't think that is normally done.

No of course not. The mixing and mastering engineers, however, use their ears to equalise the mix to achieve the correct perceived tonal balance under identical (in this respect) conditions to those under which you are listening at home.

 

[Thomas_A]

No of course not. The mixing and mastering engineers, however, use their ears to equalise the mix to achieve the correct perceived tonal balance under identical (in this respect) conditions to those under which you are listening at home.

I think this compensation still is not done. If they use good headphones adjusted to a perfect Harman curve they will sound "neutral" in the headphones. But it will not sound neutral with the speakers if they have linear response. If you compare to a phantom center/mono source that is.

 

[andreasmaaan]

I think this compensation still is not done. If they use good headphones adjusted to a perfect Harman curve they will sound "neutral" in the headphones. But it will not sound neutral with the speakers if they have linear response. If you compare to a phantom center/mono source that is.

No professional mixes on headphones though. Professional stereo mixing is always done using stereo loudspeakers; as a result, the mixing engineer experiences the same interchannel crosstalk that we do at home as listeners.

PS sorry if I came off as a little gruff before! Just re-read my first response now. I think your idea is an interesting and thoughtful one, but I do happen to disagree with your suggestion for the reasons noted

PPS I actually do believe that there is a strong argument for designing mono speakers that are intended to reproduce mixed-down stereo (e.g. bluetooth speakers) to have a non-flat response in this frequency range to compensate for this phenomenon the other way.

 

[Thomas_A]

No professional mixes on headphones though. Professional stereo mixing is always done using stereo loudspeakers; as a result, the mixing engineer experiences the same interchannel crosstalk that we do at home as listeners.

PS sorry if I came off as a little gruff before! Just re-read my first response now. I think your idea is an interesting and thoughtful one, but I do happen to disagree with your suggestion for the reasons noted

No problem!

Agreed that they try mix to the best they can, but they would need to make comparison with a true mono source during mixing to make those adjustments. They could be lucky to hit the right compensation though, but I doubt that happens very often, if ever..

 

[andreasmaaan]

No problem!

Agreed that they try mix to the best they can, but they would need to make comparison with a true mono source during mixing to make those adjustments. They could be lucky to hit the right compensation though, but I doubt that happens very often, if ever..

What do you mean by a "true mono source"?

 

[Thomas_A]

What do you mean by a "true mono source"?

Sorry I was unclear. A single speaker situated in front of you.