Who can't listen without EQ anymore?

[solderdude]

Who can't listen without EQ anymore?​

It is a matter of selecting the right transducers.

I have a select few headphones that don't need EQ to sound good.
I have plenty headphones that don't 'need' EQ but improve a bit with a small amount of EQ.
I have a few headphones that I would (and do not) listen to without EQ.

The problems start once you know how something should sound (have a reference).
Sometimes I wished I was 'normal' and would be happy with anything that made sound.

 

[Klonatans]

Life is sad an anaemic without EQ! While some headphones and IEMs have better fundamentals than others, their FR can still be improved with surgical EQ intervention. Also sometimes even a single EQ filter in a particular FR area can be life saving.

 

[Chromatischism]

The end of my speaker journey (at least for now) was getting a pair of speakers that need no EQ at all outside of the bass due to the room. That way I can place them ideally for soundstage and imaging and cut the EQ off beyond 300-400 Hz.

But that region, plus my subs, absolutely needs EQ. I wouldn't be without high-quality bass correction.

With my IEMs, I require full-range EQ. I would need less of it if I switched to the Truthear Zero Reds, but still. I already own the blues and with the perfect EQ profile there is no reason to spend more money.

 

[Arindal]

The 2-4kHz region also is a range I've always been sensitive at, an old hearing trauma from the army didn't help either, four weeks of hell, I tell you. Never fully healed.

Fully understand that, and can tell you that many people are sensitive to this band, even those who have no trauma at all. From how our ear canals and eardrum are working, this is just the band with the lowest threshold of audibility.

My hearing is completely healthy, have never in my life exposed my ears to any traumatizing SPL (despite having worked in pro audio and going to rock concerts and clubs, not a single time without protection). Nevertheless I feel an increased sensitivity between 2K and 4K, particularly for narrow peaks, distortion, edge diffraction problems, or an attenuated level of this band, as the neighboring one 1-2K will get annoying in this case. Not so sensitive to an octave-broad boost of the former band, it just gets brilliant in this case.

And then it's the un-EQable stuff,

Which is actually quite common. Whenever I encounter problems with localization stability, distorted proximity, bass booming, cancellation, dominance of reflection/reverb or tonal imbalance of any of these phenomena, I am ready to bet it cannot be EQ´ed by any means. Which turns out to be the case in 95% of all situations.

 

[Sokel]

Fully understand that, and can tell you that many people are sensitive to this band, even those who have no trauma at all. From how our ear canals and eardrum are working, this is just the band with the lowest threshold of audibility.

My hearing is completely healthy, have never in my life exposed my ears to any traumatizing SPL (despite having worked in pro audio and going to rock concerts and clubs, not a single time without protection). Nevertheless I feel an increased sensitivity between 2K and 4K, particularly for narrow peaks, distortion, edge diffraction problems, or an attenuated level of this band, as the neighboring one 1-2K will get annoying in this case. Not so sensitive to an octave-broad boost of the former band, it just gets brilliant in this case.

About the region, to me is 3-5kHz, I have said it many times.
And I suspect it's not alone, but a combination of this hot area along with anemic mid-bass.

I have it since forever, probably I was born with it. No trauma.
I always talk about it with my doctor at the annual ear cleaning and check and he always tell me the same thing, it's natural and personal, there's all kinds of stuff like that at different regions, SPL, etc that bother people, totally personal to each one. 2kHz to 5kHz is actually common, doctor teases me and says that we are survivalists, still savages

The thing is that natural sounds, instruments,etc never bothered me, the opposite.
It's only speakers and headphones that do it, and it's not just a little discomfort, to me is physical, I know by now so much that I can see that round headache coming from the first minutes I listen to something.

 

[Westsounds]

eq changed my life, i cant stand harman or most of the other targets. The 1-8k gain is far too high for my ears, be it in ears or over ears. I've eq'd both to something that should measure a lot darker but in reality it sounds neutral to me, close to my eq'd speakers. HRTF is a bad thing!

and like, if i couldnt eq my speakers i dont think i'd have enjoyed em nearly as much. How do people enjoy any speaker without correcting the low frequencies at least??

Exactly as you say, to my ears EQ’d everything gets closer to a sound I think I would hear in reality. If I don’t, nothing sounds like it should, instruments or vocals. I know what things sound like acoustically yet flat response though headphones or speakers doesn’t sound anything like it.

 

[Westsounds]

I have a select few headphones that don't need EQ to sound good.
I have plenty headphones that don't 'need' EQ but improve a bit with a small amount of EQ.
I have a few headphones that I would (and do not) listen to without EQ.

Same

Sometimes I wished I was 'normal' and would be happy with anything that made sound.

SAME

 

[Arindal]

The thing is that natural sounds, instruments,etc never bothered me, the opposite.

I guess you have never been sitting last row of the 1st or 2nd violins in the orchestra, with piccolo flutes or trumpets right behind you?

It's only speakers and headphones that do it, and it's not just a little discomfort, to me is physical,

Fully understand that it is highly individual. I really wonder why it is the case with loudspeakers but not natural instruments being rich in overtones particularly in this band?

Did you ever try loudspeakers by Andrew Jones, like TAD R1? He in a presentation filmed for YT, mentioned exactly what you describe being applicable to him as well, and I found particularly his bigger TAD models to deliver exactly that extra portion of transparency and ´forgiveness´ in the brilliance band which some audiophiles might call ´silky´, without highlighting other bands. Supposedly some of his Elac and MoFi models offer similar tonality.

I know what things sound like acoustically yet flat response though headphones or speakers doesn’t sound anything like it.

Flat response on headphones is supposed to sound not natural, as it is circumventing the HRTF.

Wonder why you came to the concluding that linear loudspeaker don't sound like natural instrument timbre-wise. Did you try this under studio-grade conditions or in a nearfield setup, or with truly constant directivity loudspeakers? I am pretty cautious with calling reproduction ´realistic´ by any means, but tonal balance can get pretty close to the real thing IMHO, without any EQ.

 

[Sokel]

I guess you have never been sitting last row of the 1st or 2nd violins in the orchestra, with piccolo flutes or trumpets right behind you?

I have been sitting just about everywhere around the orchestra, instruments don't bother me even at 10 cm away from me.

I like TAD, never bothered me, same with Mofi the little I have listened to them (although my attention was more if they can kick, a rare quality these days at their price point).
If I was to name speakers that bother me, think of the newer B&W 801 series (the first ones were ok and I haven't listened to the latest, so the in-betweens).

Some small studio monitors as well but I narrow that to the weak midbass probably.

 

[Digital_Thor]

I sold my Volvo V50 and bought a V70 instead, still from 2008. The V70 does not seem to have EQ like the V50, but only bass and treble, like almost all ordinary integrated amps from the last 50 years or so. When dialing down the bass a few "steps", I actually enjoy the sound just fine for casual listening.
I also listen to my Philips Fidelio L3 and my Sony UTL without much fiddle.
In my home stereo, I go way further, with multi-sub and DSP

 

[Arindal]

If I was to name speakers that bother me, think of the newer B&W 801 series (the first ones were ok and I haven't listened to the latest, so the in-betweens).

If I am not mistaken, after the initial Matrix 801 there were at least 5, if not 6 generations of 800 series, partially being called ´Nautilus´, partly with a D (=Diamond) added. Those which I have listened to over the years were pretty different with the second N801 (dating around 2003 I guess) models sounding rather warm, distant and lame, and the generation with silver midrange cones being most brillant and bright. Did not really like any of these under studio conditions, but they sounded rather clean and not annoying, so maybe you are just sensitive to tonality and boosted tweeter indeed.

 

[obsessive9119]

With headphones, I’ve gone full circle. Back in the day I bought lots of different headphones and switched between them depending on music and mood.

The a while ago I discovered EQ and had my mind blown. I put a lot of effort into setups that allowed me to have EQ everywhere.

Then recently, I found headphones are sound (and measure) great without EQ, and am running them off an Apple dongle. It’s so much more convenient, sounds better, and is way cheaper.

For speakers, I could run my LS50s without EQ if I didn’t have a sub, but with a sub it’s pretty much essential. I have some cheap speakers on my desk and some old Magnats in the garage - both I full-range EQ and it makes them listenable, if not great.

 

[Westsounds]

With headphones, I’ve gone full circle. Back in the day I bought lots of different headphones and switched between them depending on music and mood.

The a while ago I discovered EQ and had my mind blown. I put a lot of effort into setups that allowed me to have EQ everywhere.

Then recently, I found headphones are sound (and measure) great without EQ, and am running them off an Apple dongle. It’s so much more convenient, sounds better, and is way cheaper.

For speakers, I could run my LS50s without EQ if I didn’t have a sub, but with a sub it’s pretty much essential. I have some cheap speakers on my desk and some old Magnats in the garage - both I full-range EQ and it makes them listenable, if not great.

What headphones did you settle on that didnt need EQ?

 

[PGansz]

After I factory reset my Marantz receiver I stopped using EQ.

I honestly can't tell a difference except from my MTM R300 center channel. Even then you can't EQ a crappy design so it never really helped off -axis cancellations. Thankfully my v1 Polk R200's are pretty neutral up to high treble region so I don't miss much from the mains.

 

[Oddball]

Use Audyssey in one system and Dirac ART in the other. Don't even think about turning them off. Both systems have subs and large bed speakers so without EQ and bass management it would be really difficult.

 

[Westsounds]

After I factory reset my Marantz receiver I stopped using EQ.

I honestly can't tell a difference except from my MTM R300 center channel. Even then you can't EQ a crappy design so it never really helped off -axis cancellations. Thankfully my v1 Polk R200's are pretty neutral up to high treble region so I don't miss much from the mains.

Funny you should say that. My receiver amp does have parametric EQ on it and I have a crappy centre speaker, when I say crappy it just doesn’t sound great without EQ, thankfully due to the amp facility I’ve tamed it and it now sounds a lot more balanced and usable in the application. And the speaker is sufficient for our needs so the amp has saved it really.

 

[Sal1950]

"Can't listen without EQ" Is a strong statement. I much prefer my 5.2.4 system with it's DRC engaged, but can still enjoy listening to the music I love
from my factory stock Truck radio system. I fell in love with much of it listening to my 1950s car radios above their vibrator buzz.

 

[Westsounds]

"Can't listen without EQ" Is a strong statement. I much prefer my 5.2.4 system with it's DRC engaged, but can still enjoy listening to the music I love
from my factory stock Truck radio system. I fell in love with much of it listening to my 1950s car radios above their vibrator buzz.

Strong statement, I agree, but there are some headphones and speaker set-ups I really can’t enjoy fully without EQ. I have one set of headphones which are completely awful without yet add in EQ, and they are transformed more or less into a very competent decent listening experience to match some of my best.

I too am not completely fussy and do have the odd Bluetooth speaker here and there which are perfectly adequate for listening to the radio or whatever, but if there’s the option to tweak, I think I usually start fiddling. Even my car has had its bass and treble adjusted to my liking, otherwise it just sounds, too boomy and bright.

 

[CuteStudio]

I generally EQ for the room, the speakers and for the artist.

I find that it takes a good few days or even weeks to get the right sound.
I also use 'Spektroid' on Android phones to watch the music FFT, as well balanced tracks generally should look flat.

My most extreme PEQ is for some old PA speakers in the garage (see pic). The bass is 12" but the cabinet is 'seriously non optimal', and the treble is via Motorola bullets, very sweet treble. The aim is to scrub off stuff below 20Hz (or even 30Hz) as that's in general a waste of power and source of IM distortion.

In fact by (also) rolling my Living Room system off below 30Hz I get far more bass now, as my small (Single ended pentode) amplifier can focus on the musical content - so my conclusion is that with bass, sometime less is more, a wildly flapping cone is to be avoided
Now Swan Lake's Waltz has the thunderous timpani sounding suitably impressive - as God intended !

In general this (pic) is my setting for a good even bass guitar and realistic helicopters in 'The Wall', good depth for 'Muse' songs such as 'Madness' and 'The Void', and also puts a nice weight behind singers such as Sophie Zelmani, 'A Fine Frenzy', Fleetwood Mac etc.

I get the 12" cones moving about 5-10mm on some notes, power is via a couple of 150W MOSFET monoblocks so it rarely clips - but 'Port Chuffing' pops up now and again, hence proving that EQ is not the be all and end all, and one day I may make some bigger cabinets

 

[Westsounds]

I get the 12" cones moving about 5-10mm on some notes, power is via a couple of 150W MOSFET monoblocks so it rarely clips - but 'Port Chuffing' pops up now and again, hence proving that EQ is not the be all and end all, and one day I may make some bigger cabinets

EQ cant get rid of port chuffing, not that Im aware of anyway. Lots of straws seem to be a good solution to that tho