Which speakers to buy to make my system better ?

[Sieniek]

I’d question the OPs overall premise.

Single driver open baffles like those you apparently have do indeed measure badly, and sound not so good. IMHO.

However, for the past 15 years or so I’ve been using open baffles based on the science of Siegfried Linkwitz. They measure well and sound great.

I’ve also owned some of the speakers that measure and sound best here: KEF R3, Revel etc etc.

Currently I have Revel equivalents in the family system and active dynamic OBs in my man-room system.

Both measure very well. Both sound great. Both are EQed.

The monopoles are for the head. the OBs the heart.

Thank you for your input, yes maybe you are right about open baffle. I am not as experienced as some of you and I am still learning but in my audio journey I have been very determined to get the most realistic sound I only could. I have never been a very technical guy but I was always carefully testing my systems by my ear and Umik microphone, Dirac etc. There is still a lot which I would like to learn especially on the technical side of things.

One thing is sure, with my open baffle system speakers - AN15 Super Alnico + 2 x Rythmik F18 with active crossover and windows Dirac on top of everything (Minidsp SHD later on) I have had the best listening session I have ever had in my life no matter the type of music and OB is always in my heart easily because of that an because of my only speakers which I have build by myself. So simple and so great sounding.

I will definitely keep one pair of OB with me anyway as these are in my heart but I am looking for an upgrade...

 

[Sieniek]

Guys, thank you so much for all your help and interest in this thread ! Seriously, I did not thought that so many posts will be just after couple of hours when the thread is active. All of you been very helpful.

In the end I have decided to choose speakers like JBL 4722 or JBL 4722N or any similar like these. I have seen JBL 4638 as well and I am not sure what are the differences between all of them. I would like to choose the best model and I hope that some of you have knowledge to help me to choose.

I am doing a research about these from the moment when Eurasian has posted them in this thread:

These are what I use, but active with audiolense: View attachment 135276 also with Salk/Rythmik subs


From JBL View attachment 135275

http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/cinema-market/screenarray-systems-2-way/4722_4722n

I am highly motivated for these as I believe these speakers with horn are something I have been looking for...

2 x JBL 4722 + 2 x Rythmik F18 with Minidsp SHD and Dirac + Purifi (bi amp ?) or maybe in the future Benchmark AHB2 in mono blocks if these JBL will need some more power because I am not sure how much of power would be enough with them with these 2 x 15” woofers on each JBL.

Do anyone of you know how much these JBL costs and where I can buy them ? What is the difference between 4722 and 4722N ? And how to integrate them best into my current system ?

 

[Mart68]

according to JBL the 4722 has a sensitivity of 104dB! - You're not going to need any more power.

 

[Sieniek]

according to JBL the 4722 has a sensitivity of 104dB! - You're not going to need any more power.

Thanks for the input !


Isn‘t this spec an maximum power needed to amplify these speakers to their full potential ?

 

[Mart68]

Thanks for the input !


Isn‘t this spec an maximum power needed to amplify these speakers to their full potential ?

Thanks for the input !


Isn‘t this spec an maximum power needed to amplify these speakers to their full potential ?

I think that is just the rating for max continuous power handling, not recommended power.

50 watts be more than enough assuming the sensitivity rating is accurate.

 

[Eurasian]

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/ca-a...nd-room-correction-software-walkthrough-r682/

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/ca-a...fers-with-stereo-mains-using-audiolense-r712/

These articles will answer many questions. Have fun!

 

[Eurasian]

The "N" is the version that comes with a passive network.

I don't know if the 4722 is still in the JBL catalog. I pieced mine together with new components using eBay and other online sources and have less than $2000 in them including freight (not including the subs, amps, multichannel dac and AL, of course). Mine are using the compression drivers Mitchco mentioned in the first article above.

Please let me know if you have any other questions,
David

 

[Sieniek]

The "N" is the version that comes with a passive network.

I don't know if the 4722 is still in the JBL catalog. I pieced mine together with new components using eBay and other online sources and have less than $2000 in them including freight (not including the subs, amps, multichannel dac and AL, of course). Mine are using the compression drivers Mitchco mentioned in the first article above.

Please let me know if you have any other questions,
David

Thank you for the informations !

Slowly I am understanding everything but couple of things still are not clear for me.

Is that mean that 4722N have a passive crossover and 4722 do not have a passive crossover built in ? So with 4722 I would need to use my Minidsp SHD all 4 outputs to set the active crossovers on the 4722 speakers between horn and woofers on left and right speaker ? Which would mean that I could not connect my left and right subwoofers into channel output 3 and 4 on my SHD ? Do I understand it properly ?

I have found these articles on audiophile style already and thank you for mentioning them. I have read a little bit there but still a lot of reading left.

I just need to understand couple of main fundamentals things first like with these crossovers. I know I sound like a noob but I am still learning so please explain how it could work with my Minidsp SHD eventually.

 

[Eurasian]

Thank you for the informations !

Slowly I am understanding everything but couple of things still are not clear for me.

Is that mean that 4722N have a passive crossover and 4722 do not have a passive crossover built in ? So with 4722 I would need to use my Minidsp SHD all 4 outputs to set the active crossovers on the 4722 speakers between horn and woofers on left and right speaker ? Which would mean that I could not connect my left and right subwoofers into channel output 3 and 4 on my SHD ? Do I understand it properly ?

I have found these articles on audiophile style already and thank you for mentioning them. I have read a little bit there but still a lot of reading left.

I just need to understand couple of main fundamentals things first like with these crossovers. I know I sound like a noob but I am still learning so please explain how it could work with my Minidsp SHD eventually.

If you can get the "N" version you would just need 1 amplifier and 1 output of the minidsp for each complete 4722 2-way loudspeaker assembly. Add in the subs and you need a total of 4 channels for the stereo system. If you want to actively bi-amplify the JBLs, you will need a total of 6 channels to make it work.

 

[Sieniek]

If you can get the "N" version you would just need 1 amplifier and 1 output of the minidsp for each complete 4722 2-way loudspeaker assembly. Add in the subs and you need a total of 4 channels for the stereo system. If you want to actively bi-amplify the JBLs, you will need a total of 6 channels to make it work.

Thank you for the info. That is so much clearer for me now.

Are there any other differences between 4722N and 4722 versions ? I have read that N version have worse HF driver.

I can imagine the N version sound quality is worse, is that true ? Do you have any experience ?

I think I have seen JBL 4722N version one speaker for around £619. I would happily buy them but I am not sure if I will miss anything from 4722 in SQ. Do you have any opinion on this ?

And last question, as I believe you are very experienced with speakers and audio systems, how would you describe the sound from these JBL’s ? Especially comparing them to conventional boxed speakers or any other you have heard in your life ?

Thanks a lot !

 

[Eurasian]

Thank you for the info. That is so much clearer for me now.

Are there any other differences between 4722N and 4722 versions ? I have read that N version have worse HF driver.

I can imagine the N version sound quality is worse, is that true ? Do you have any experience ?

I think I have seen JBL 4722N version one speaker for around £619. I would happily buy them but I am not sure if I will miss anything from 4722 in SQ. Do you have any opinion on this ?

And last question, as I believe you are very experienced with speakers and audio systems, how would you describe the sound from these JBL’s ? Especially comparing them to conventional boxed speakers or any other you have heard in your life ?

Thanks a lot !

Once these speakers/room are corrected with Audiolense XO, they disappear as sound sources and music hangs in the space between and behind them in a very natural way, depending on the recording, of course. They are very dynamic sounding with no compression or distortion that I can hear. In a home setting, these things are just loafing along. With AL or (possibly)Dirac, you can adjust the in room spectral balance to your liking.

IMO, JBL has always made very high quality drivers that are often installed in a sub optimal way. Audiolense is one way to wring the maximum performance from them. You will need very quiet amplifiers for these speakers, especially the horns (which are something like 110 dB/W/m!).

I can't comment on the stock passive system as I haven't listened to it (except maybe unknowingly in a theater), but I think it would be a good starting point in a journey down the high efficiency road.

 

[Bear123]

Thanks for a reply !

Is there any advantage in going a floorstander against an for example M105 + large subwoofer on each side ? Which would play louder, have better SPL capabilities?

IMO, using a small, single woofer bookshelf speaker will NOT give you the ability to play as loud as you might ever want to with clean, accurate reproduction. Small single woofer speakers will be *very* SPL limited in the 60-300Hz region. Just look at all bookshelf speakers tested on this site, then look at the F328Be…yes its a more expensive speaker but it uses multiple large, high quality woofers as necessary for high SPL with low distortion above 60Hz.

85 dB won't make you go deaf listening to music. Having extraordinary capability helps to approach life like music reproduction as transient peaks, even at moderate listening levels, can be very high.

If you are willing to try a narrower dispersion speaker:
JTR Noesis 212RT

I prefer wide dispersion but admit I haven't heard an excellent narrower dispersion speaker and certainly haven't A/B'd against a comparable wide dispersion. My experience is comparing mediocre to poor horn speakers vs very good wide dispersion, so hardly a fair comparison.

Order a pair of JTR, send to Amir for testing!

 

[Sieniek]

Once these speakers/room are corrected with Audiolense XO, they disappear as sound sources and music hangs in the space between and behind them in a very natural way, depending on the recording, of course. They are very dynamic sounding with no compression or distortion that I can hear. In a home setting, these things are just loafing along. With AL or (possibly)Dirac, you can adjust the in room spectral balance to your liking.

IMO, JBL has always made very high quality drivers that are often installed in a sub optimal way. Audiolense is one way to wring the maximum performance from them. You will need very quiet amplifiers for these speakers, especially the horns (which are something like 110 dB/W/m!).

I can't comment on the stock passive system as I haven't listened to it (except maybe unknowingly in a theater), but I think it would be a good starting point in a journey down the high efficiency road.

Thank you for your detailed impressions !

I have Purifi amplifiers with the measurements done by Amir which I have attached if you could check ? Do you think these would be good and quiet enough ? Would these amplifiers be enough for these JBL woofers ?

 

[Chromatischism]

@Bear123 good call, can't believe no one mentioned JTR yet. They should be at the top of the list.

 

[Sieniek]

@Bear123 good call, can't believe no one mentioned JTR yet. They should be at the top of the list.

Do you think these JTR are much better than these JBL 4722 ? The price difference is quite big and JBL are much cheaper and JBL have 15“ woofers instead of 12”.

Anyway JTR are really good option as well. I know it is a great company.

 

[Chromatischism]

We don't have measurements on the 4722, but we have measurements on the JTRs. I would be surprised if the JTR's didn't measure better.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

kef reference 1 or ref 3 measures really well, kef r7 or kef r3 for less money

 

[Sieniek]

We don't have measurements on the 4722, but we have measurements on the JTRs. I would be surprised if the JTR's didn't measure better.

I see now. Yes, most probably JTR measure better. So for now I have two options. I am doing a lot of research about these and lets see if there will show up any other good option.

 

[Chromatischism]

Just remember, the larger the waveguide, the lower in frequency you can extend the directivity control. That's important to know with JTR designs that incorporate the tweeter and midrange into the waveguide with their fancy compression driver. Those will be labeled as a 3-way with a coaxial compression driver.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

here is some measures from spinorama, kef reference 5 got the 2nd place

https://pierreaubert.github.io/spinorama/