Which speakers are the Classical Music Pros using?

[Koeitje]

That's a bit of a blanket statement. Yes some pop/rock is 'heavily processed' (whatever that means) – but so is some classical. You don't think modern classical production avails itself of all the capabitities of modern digital recording techniques? And if we are specifically talking loudspeakers used in studios I don't see how the needs of classical production differs (or should differ) from any other kind of music ...

It doesn't, if anything its less demanding than producing electronic music because that kind of music can have massive amounts of low frequency energy that is hard to play back.

 

[tuga]

That's a bit of a blanket statement. Yes some pop/rock is 'heavily processed' (whatever that means) – but so is some classical. You don't think modern classical production avails itself of all the capabitities of modern digital recording techniques? And if we are specifically talking loudspeakers used in studios I don't see how the needs of classical production differs (or should differ) from any other kind of music ...

Classical music is more often than not recorded from a documental approach. The producer is trying to re-create the illusion of attending a live musical event.

Most studio produced music is a fabrication that's completely made up in the mixing console, a "collage" that only exists as it exits the studio monitors. Most of the time there isn't a single musical event, some of the players may not even be recorded in the same studio, and they monitor the other instruments on headphones. Each instrument is mic'ed in mono and close (no spatial cues are picked up) or connected strainght into the mixing desk (most electrical and electronic instruments), and each track is EQ'ed and manipulated to taste (a drum kit alone can use some 10 mics/tracks). The stereo image and the ambience, the "soundstage", are created by use of pan-potting and reverb.

Multi-track orchestral is probably the most common technique nowadays. Since the goal is different from pop/rock there is use ambience mics which are blended in with the main mics and the accent mics.

 

[Frank Dernie]

That's a bit of a blanket statement. Yes some pop/rock is 'heavily processed' (whatever that means) – but so is some classical. You don't think modern classical production avails itself of all the capabitities of modern digital recording techniques? And if we are specifically talking loudspeakers used in studios I don't see how the needs of classical production differs (or should differ) from any other kind of music ...

It is true that classical music is now almost always recorded using spot microphones and multiple channels and mixed down later.
The big difference is that compression is neither necessary (digital recorders have enough dynamic range) nor done for effect (louder isn't heard as better).
Perhaps live recordings have fewer microphones and less processing, I don't know. Personally I find it regretable that the old ways used by BBC and ORTF for broadcasts and the Decca "tree" and Mercury triple microphone array are not used any more. They picked up more ambient noise but, for me, produced more natural recordings.
A few years ago somebody on another forum was helping out on a recording of Handel's Messiah and they recorded a stereo recording using an old fashioned stereo pair as well as the multi-track mix down. He, with permission, uploaded samples of the direct 2-microphone recording (where the main balance adjustment is microphone position) and the mix of all the spot and environmental microphones.
On my hifi the simply recorded was more realistic, and I preferred it, the only down side was slightly more ambient noise, only noticeable in quiet bits.
I hoped they would issue both recordings but only the mix down of the multi-channel recordings made it for sale.
It is a very good recording with excellent sound quality but I still regret not being able to buy the unadulterated one which was my preference.

Spot microphones are very good at avoiding picking up background noise but the frequency balance 5" from an instrument is nothing like what you get 20+' away so needs manipulating to sound natural and, of course, once all these microphones have been manipulated and mixed together any phase information is completely lost from the stereo.

 

[tuga]

It doesn't, if anything its less demanding than producing electronic music because that kind of music can have massive amounts of low frequency energy that is hard to play back.

Classical is less demanding to produce but more demanding to record.
An orchestral piece from the Romantic period can have up to 120+ instruments and a large choir and unlike pop/rock everyone will be playing and singing simultaneoulsy.

Classical engineers often say that ideally all effort should be put into the capture stage so that production is kept to a minimum.

 

[tuga]

Perhaps live recordings have fewer microphones and less processing, I don't know.

From the photos and video I've seen many still use few mics, which is understandable because it wouldn't be nice for the audience to see a legion of broomsticks scattered about the stage.
But nowadas many orchestras release their own recordings and they some many small mics hanging from the canopy. This is the Berliner Philharmoniker:

 

[tuga]

Multi-mic'ing an orchestra is a lot safer and easier than getting it right with a pair or mains and a pair of ambience mics.

 

[tuga]

You'd be surprised classical recording is rarely a one-take either...

I would not. It's a subject that interests me.
Some artists are/were obsessed with perfection, the foremost example being Glenn Gould (a chartered nutcase), whilst others like Günter Wand prefer(ed) the rawness of a live performance.

 

[andymok]

Clasical is less demanding to produce but more demanding to record.
An orchestral piece from the Romantic period can have up to 120+ instruments and a large choir and unlike pop/rock everyone will be playing and singing simultaneoulsy.

Claissical engineers often say that ideally all effort should be put into the capture stage so that production is kept to a minimum.

Easier to produce?
The mixer is required to read full scores @@

More mic = safer?
until you run into phase issues

 

[Frank Dernie]

Not until you run into phase issues

I don't think there is any real phase information in modern recordings, pop or classical.

 

[tuga]

I was present at this concert recorded here with a pair of mics hanging from the canopy and an accent mic by the piano.The recording, which I also own, used multiply mics and sounds a lot less like what I heard from the audience than the YouTube video from a soundscape/realism perspective:

 

[Koeitje]

Clasical is less demanding to produce but more demanding to record.
An orchestral piece from the Romantic period can have up to 120+ instruments and a large choir and unlike pop/rock everyone will be playing and singing simultaneoulsy.

Classical engineers often say that ideally all effort should be put into the capture stage so that production is kept to a minimum.

So in the end speakers matter less for classical .

 

[tuga]

So in the end speakers matter less for classical .

For production perhaps if there isn't a lot of it, but you still have to monitor the mic'ing.

Interestingly not a single one of the photos I posted shows any nearfield monitoring.


P.S.: could they be macro-monitoring thus listening over domestic speakers might make more sense, whilst studio monitors would be better for heavy processing?

 

[Frank Dernie]

I never listen in nearfield conditions and never have.
Even in my study I don't have speakers on my desk but about 8 feet away.

 

[Koeitje]

P.S.: could they be macro-monitoring thus listening over domestic speakers might make more sense, whilst studio monitors would be better for heavy processing?

That would make fuck all difference.

 

[Igor Kirkwood]

You show here lots of Recording Studios

But what happens for record in Churchs ?

On this photo you can see one of my recording place in a church of Tallin in Estonia. (with only 2 microphones Neumann TLM 50)

I record here for ECM Record (in 2016) the CD "deer's cry" with the composer Arvo Pärt and Vox Clamentis singers.

The monitoring of this Arvo Pärt CD was on phones in the church and with my loudspeaker .... in France !

You can see olso here :

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/dirac-and-similar.8715/page-9

 

[tuga]

But what happens for record in Churchs ?

On this photo you can see one of my recording place in a church of Tallin in Estonia. (with only 2 microphones Neumann TLM 50)

I record here for ECM Record (in 2016) the CD "deer's cry" with the composer Arvo Pärt and Vox Clamentis singers.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I've just ordered a CD.
Listening to it now on Spotify. Sounds very good.

Feel free to suggest more of your recordings.

The monitoring of this Arvo Pärt CD was on phones in the church and with my loudspeaker .... in France !

Did you do any processing (EQ, compression, etc.) at home?
Does the CD sound different from your master?

What is your subwoofer?

 

[tuga]

But what happens for record in Churchs ?

I showed a photo of the BBC's OB truck but headphones would definitely be the easiest option for recording on such conditions.

 

[sergeauckland]

For the recordings I've done in churches, I've used a Decca Tree mixed direct to stereo for the larger ensembles. Monitoring was on a pair of small Genelecs to get the stereo perspective right, as with a Decca Tree, one can adjust the L&R width compared with the (mono) centre. No EQ or compression was used, I just left enough headroom in case. I recorded a set of Soprano and Piano accompaniment performances where a single stereo pair didn't work, so I miked the piano in stereo and panpotted the singer using a single microphone, but both were at a sensible distance, so captured a lot of the ambience.

Like Frank, I prefer recordings with some ambience rather than the more common dry, close-miked recordings of today. I suppose that's why I rather like playing my old Quadraphonic classical recordings, as they use the rear channels for ambience rather than effects.

S.

 

[tuga]

Does anyone know what speakers Keith O. Johnson of Reference Recordings using?

 

[Frank Dernie]

You show here lots of Recording Studios

But what happens for record in Churchs ?

On this photo you can see one of my recording place in a church of Tallin in Estonia. (with only 2 microphones Neumann TLM 50)

I record here for ECM Record (in 2016) the CD "deer's cry" with the composer Arvo Pärt and Vox Clamentis singers.

That is exactly how I used to record in church. It produces a very natural recording IME.