• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Which Sennheiser is best for FPS Gaming

hayche

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
14
Likes
2
I watch a COD player called huskerrs, he has always had HD599, last year at some point he went through a lot of headphones searching for an upgrade because the footsteps are so much harder to hear in warzone 2, he had HD660s and HD800s and i am sure lots more I never viewed, all through a rme adi-2 dac, he went back to his HD599
 

markanini

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Messages
1,718
Likes
1,768
Location
Scania
I watch a COD player called huskerrs, he has always had HD599, last year at some point he went through a lot of headphones searching for an upgrade because the footsteps are so much harder to hear in warzone 2, he had HD660s and HD800s and i am sure lots more I never viewed, all through a rme adi-2 dac, he went back to his HD599

I though it was logical a warmer headphone would be preferred. This particular anecdote confirms one case at least.
 
Last edited:

Robbo99999

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
6,874
Likes
6,672
Location
UK
I though it was logical a warmer headphone would be preferred. This particular anecdote confirms one case at least.
In my own experience you don't want the headphone to be too warm. You need "accurate" treble (or at least enough of it) to allow for the Virtual Surround elements to function optimally as well as enabling you to hear things like rustling of movement of enemy players, metallic clicks of weaponry of nearby enemies (during reloading for instance or sometimes there's mettallic knocking noises of carried equipment clanging together). I think the Virtual Surround algorithms particularly change frequency response in the mids & treble to indicate in-front vs behind, as well as volume changes, so it's important for your headphone to have enough treble. You also don't want the bass to be overwhelming because that will mask the treble from a psychoacoustic point of view, thereby worsening Virtual Surround and lowering the enemy player cues that I mentioned too. Warmer is definitely not better when it comes to headphones for fps gaming. I've found roughly straight linear bass from 500Hz down to 20Hz to be pretty much optimal - basically Harman without the bass shelf. (Additionally, I feel that Virtual Surround Sound can add some bass, and/or sound in games contains enough bass - the Harman Bass Shelf in my experience is not well-suited to optimal Virtual Surround Sound gaming).
 
Last edited:

markanini

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Messages
1,718
Likes
1,768
Location
Scania
My reasoning is much simpler. @hayche said the headphones were used to better hear distant footsteps. That implies higher SPL, clean/clear/accurate headphones have a greater risk of sounding grating at higher SPL than warmer headphones.
 

Robbo99999

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
6,874
Likes
6,672
Location
UK
My reasoning is much simpler. @hayche said the headphones were used to better hear distant footsteps. That implies higher SPL, clean/clear/accurate headphones have a greater risk of sounding grating at higher SPL than warmer headphones.
Well, we don't know why huskerrs went back to his 599. I'm merely saying that warmer is not better when it comes to headphones for Virtual Surround Sound gaming. These are important points for people who want to try to optimise their headphones or choose a headphone for Virtual Surround fps gaming - I'm being altruistic and trying to give people some pointers.
 
OP
S

Stavka74

Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2023
Messages
11
Likes
4
Robbo is spot on. Warmer is not for FPS imaging sounds. You want neutral with an upper low and lower mid boost and clear highs. All day. Too much bass, forget about it.
 

Robbo99999

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
6,874
Likes
6,672
Location
UK
Robbo is spot on. Warmer is not for FPS imaging sounds. You want neutral with an upper low and lower mid boost and clear highs. All day. Too much bass, forget about it.
Something along the lines of the following I think is pretty spot on:
Good Gaming Frequency Response.jpg

Which is the Sennheiser HD560s frequency response (measured by Oratory). That doesn't really need EQ for gaming - essentially Harman Treble and not far away from flat (horizontal) from 300Hz down to 20Hz.
 

Misguided

Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2022
Messages
55
Likes
22
HD800 is supposed to be the best due to it's excellent staging after that HD560s as it's neutral / bright sounding with a wide sound stage. I use Hifiman Sundaras to game on and they are great.
 

Robbo99999

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
6,874
Likes
6,672
Location
UK
HD800 is supposed to be the best due to it's excellent staging after that HD560s as it's neutral / bright sounding with a wide sound stage. I use Hifiman Sundaras to game on and they are great.
HD800(s) are indeed supposed to be good for gaming. Good soundstage headphones often seem to correlate with good gaming headphones in my experience, although praps the one thing that goes against that idea a little is my experience with gaming using my IEM's - Crinacle X Zero - those were as good as my best headphones for gaming. I don't really use IEM's though as I don't really like them being inside my ear (pushing wax in etc), and they do irritate my ear after a while.
 

a-by

Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2023
Messages
7
Likes
2
Agree with everyone saying skip the 600 line of Senn's for gaming. The 560s has angled drivers, giving it superior sound separation vs. those units. My 6xx is exclusively used for music listening

To date, my favorite pairs for gaming are the 560s, DT900 Pro X, and the DT800 (600ohm)

I perceived better imaging with Beyers, but better sound separation with the 560s. For chaotic games like Overwatch, the 560s takes the edge. For tactical shooter style games, where imaging is key, Beyers are preferred. The OG Beyers (900, 700, 800 and TYGR) all use the same driver with different tuning configurations. I went with the lean bass and emphasized treble on the 800, for my use case

Casual gaming is a whole different ballgame, you might prefer something that highlights 'immersive' qualities like the HarmonicDyne Zeus (large soundstage and boosted bass)
 

Jeff19342

Member
Joined
May 29, 2022
Messages
7
Likes
14
Tl;Dr: I love my HD560S, but the ATH-R70x (with a JDS Atom Amp) is the closest thing to a holographic 3D sound image I've ever heard in COD.

I play mostly COD & recently went on a binge to see if anything could dethrone my 560S for situational awareness... tried DT900 Pro X, PC38X, K702, 700X, a used AD700 off eBay, plus retested my Sundaras & former go-to DT990 (250 Ω). None bested the 560S for me. Then I

The 900's made gunfire sound VERY HARSH when sound pressure levels got anywhere even close to what I can comfortably listen to the HD560S (peaks around 90 dB). I can see why Fresh Reviews & others love them, but they're not for me.

Trying the PC38X convinced me that anyone who pushes them are shills. Perhaps my pair were assembled late on a Friday (if that's a thing for assembly workers in China) but they sounded terrible to me with harsh treble, muddy bass, and worst of all, 3-blob left.......center........right soundstage that was horrendous for locating footsteps and subtle audio clues.

K702 & 700X both have exaggerated huge soundstages that sound unnatural to me. I know the direction, but all too often the distance of footsteps and subtle audio clues was hard to determine. I can certainly see why people get impressed by their big stage. Plus their weak bass & elevated treble definitely trigger your "spider sense" to hear an enemy around you even when explosions & gunfire are going off. But the HD560S simply give me a much better overall stronger sense of direction AND distance...

Unfortunately the old AD700 came with a driver imbalance where the right was about 2dB louder than left. Still, I could tell these were significantly better sounding than the 700X that replaced them, as well as vastly more comfortable with superior (possibly aftermarket) pads. I was initially tempted to get a preamp with ability to balance the left & right channel, but decided that it still wouldn't sound as good as the HD560S...

Sundara simply sounds beautiful, but unfortunately has a smaller soundstage & doesn't image as nicely as the 560S, so it will remain at my work desk for sublime music listening...

DT990's V-shaped EQ means gunfire isn't as harsh as with the 900 Pro X. Its soaring treble helps reveal those "tinglers," But for me the 990's greatest strength is resolving distance of sounds accurately. As an OCD engineer, I found if you go into a private match to mess around with auditory changes as you approach or retreat from sound sources, the DT990 seem to resolve finer changes in sound pressure better than all of the above. But its smaller soundstage and frankly its annoying long, curly cable make me reach for the 560S instead...

...That is until I gave the ATH-R70x a listen (due to Crinacle's kind words on these sadly overlooked & mostly forgotten pair of cans). WOW! Not only can I tell if someone if sneaking up behind, but I can tell if he's jumping, crouched, above, below, behind a wall, etc. These are the "wall-hack" headphones I've been searching for! I can zero in on sound cues as easy as I can locate my iPhone in the next room with Find My Phone. For example, whenever I hear the signature sound for a loot chest, 9 times out of 10, I can beeline directly to its spot without missing a step. I've gone from well below 50/50 in the Gulag to winning nearly 70-75% of the time thanks to its holographic 3D sound image.

The caveat is to extract that much detail, you WILL need a headphone amp. I was actually able to get a satisfactory volume level (85 dB peaks w/ slow C-weighted) connected directly to my Xbox controller, however the soundstage and dynamics were reduced. Connecting it to my JDS Atom (via an Astro MixAmp Pro TR to free my controller of wires) enables its 470 Ω / 98 dB (1 mW) drivers to sing!

However you asked specifically about Sennheiser... I must say the HD560S is right there. And that's powered from an Xbox controller! At 120 Ω, they stand to improve a bit in dynamics with a headphone amplifier, however thanks to more efficient 110 dB @ 1V (or ≈101 dB/mW) drivers, they are already at perhaps 90-95% peak performance with the common 1 Vrms output voltage in many, if not most modern portable electronics (other than a PS4 controller). In fact, it's as if the 560S was designed to just make it at the limit of our phones with its 110 dB @ 1V spec, given that 110 dB loudness is a common benchmark for audiophile gear, most phones today can output 1Vrms... Likewise with 120 Ω impedance, only 8mW of power & 8 mA of current is required, which an iPhone and an Xbox controller can manage. So you could say the HD560S is ideally suited for the majority of gamers who aren't running headphone amplifiers.

I can attest that I get 85-90 dB peaks in COD with my 560S plugged directly into Xbox controller & volume level set to 8/10 with chat mix at 50/50. Meanwhile the R70x requires 10/10 volume & 100% sent to Headphone (0% chat) to achieve 80-85 dB peaks from controller... Listenable, but again with significantly reduced dynamics, since its 470 Ω & 98 dB/mW craves 2.7 Vrms for 110 dB sound pressure!

So in the end, I have both the 560S & R70x by my side... When I'm preparing for a gaming session, I fire up the JDS Atom, MixAmp, & untangle the 2 wires to the R70x & 1 for the Antlion ModMic (wireless one doesn't work on Xbox!) and settle in for glorious 3D immersive wall-hacking sound. But when a buddy hits me up in the middle of Netflix or such, I'll simply grab the 560S with a VModa BoomPro & plug it straight into the controller for quick & easy excellent FPS gaming audio.
 

Robbo99999

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
6,874
Likes
6,672
Location
UK
Tl;Dr: I love my HD560S, but the ATH-R70x (with a JDS Atom Amp) is the closest thing to a holographic 3D sound image I've ever heard in COD.

I play mostly COD & recently went on a binge to see if anything could dethrone my 560S for situational awareness... tried DT900 Pro X, PC38X, K702, 700X, a used AD700 off eBay, plus retested my Sundaras & former go-to DT990 (250 Ω). None bested the 560S for me. Then I

The 900's made gunfire sound VERY HARSH when sound pressure levels got anywhere even close to what I can comfortably listen to the HD560S (peaks around 90 dB). I can see why Fresh Reviews & others love them, but they're not for me.

Trying the PC38X convinced me that anyone who pushes them are shills. Perhaps my pair were assembled late on a Friday (if that's a thing for assembly workers in China) but they sounded terrible to me with harsh treble, muddy bass, and worst of all, 3-blob left.......center........right soundstage that was horrendous for locating footsteps and subtle audio clues.

K702 & 700X both have exaggerated huge soundstages that sound unnatural to me. I know the direction, but all too often the distance of footsteps and subtle audio clues was hard to determine. I can certainly see why people get impressed by their big stage. Plus their weak bass & elevated treble definitely trigger your "spider sense" to hear an enemy around you even when explosions & gunfire are going off. But the HD560S simply give me a much better overall stronger sense of direction AND distance...

Unfortunately the old AD700 came with a driver imbalance where the right was about 2dB louder than left. Still, I could tell these were significantly better sounding than the 700X that replaced them, as well as vastly more comfortable with superior (possibly aftermarket) pads. I was initially tempted to get a preamp with ability to balance the left & right channel, but decided that it still wouldn't sound as good as the HD560S...

Sundara simply sounds beautiful, but unfortunately has a smaller soundstage & doesn't image as nicely as the 560S, so it will remain at my work desk for sublime music listening...

DT990's V-shaped EQ means gunfire isn't as harsh as with the 900 Pro X. Its soaring treble helps reveal those "tinglers," But for me the 990's greatest strength is resolving distance of sounds accurately. As an OCD engineer, I found if you go into a private match to mess around with auditory changes as you approach or retreat from sound sources, the DT990 seem to resolve finer changes in sound pressure better than all of the above. But its smaller soundstage and frankly its annoying long, curly cable make me reach for the 560S instead...

...That is until I gave the ATH-R70x a listen (due to Crinacle's kind words on these sadly overlooked & mostly forgotten pair of cans). WOW! Not only can I tell if someone if sneaking up behind, but I can tell if he's jumping, crouched, above, below, behind a wall, etc. These are the "wall-hack" headphones I've been searching for! I can zero in on sound cues as easy as I can locate my iPhone in the next room with Find My Phone. For example, whenever I hear the signature sound for a loot chest, 9 times out of 10, I can beeline directly to its spot without missing a step. I've gone from well below 50/50 in the Gulag to winning nearly 70-75% of the time thanks to its holographic 3D sound image.

The caveat is to extract that much detail, you WILL need a headphone amp. I was actually able to get a satisfactory volume level (85 dB peaks w/ slow C-weighted) connected directly to my Xbox controller, however the soundstage and dynamics were reduced. Connecting it to my JDS Atom (via an Astro MixAmp Pro TR to free my controller of wires) enables its 470 Ω / 98 dB (1 mW) drivers to sing!

However you asked specifically about Sennheiser... I must say the HD560S is right there. And that's powered from an Xbox controller! At 120 Ω, they stand to improve a bit in dynamics with a headphone amplifier, however thanks to more efficient 110 dB @ 1V (or ≈101 dB/mW) drivers, they are already at perhaps 90-95% peak performance with the common 1 Vrms output voltage in many, if not most modern portable electronics (other than a PS4 controller). In fact, it's as if the 560S was designed to just make it at the limit of our phones with its 110 dB @ 1V spec, given that 110 dB loudness is a common benchmark for audiophile gear, most phones today can output 1Vrms... Likewise with 120 Ω impedance, only 8mW of power & 8 mA of current is required, which an iPhone and an Xbox controller can manage. So you could say the HD560S is ideally suited for the majority of gamers who aren't running headphone amplifiers.

I can attest that I get 85-90 dB peaks in COD with my 560S plugged directly into Xbox controller & volume level set to 8/10 with chat mix at 50/50. Meanwhile the R70x requires 10/10 volume & 100% sent to Headphone (0% chat) to achieve 80-85 dB peaks from controller... Listenable, but again with significantly reduced dynamics, since its 470 Ω & 98 dB/mW craves 2.7 Vrms for 110 dB sound pressure!

So in the end, I have both the 560S & R70x by my side... When I'm preparing for a gaming session, I fire up the JDS Atom, MixAmp, & untangle the 2 wires to the R70x & 1 for the Antlion ModMic (wireless one doesn't work on Xbox!) and settle in for glorious 3D immersive wall-hacking sound. But when a buddy hits me up in the middle of Netflix or such, I'll simply grab the 560S with a VModa BoomPro & plug it straight into the controller for quick & easy excellent FPS gaming audio.
For Channel Balance, in windows on PC you can easily set the Left/Right Balance - relevant to when you're talking about your AD700.
channel balance windows setting.jpg

Interesting to hear your gaming experience of different headphones.
 

Physkx

Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2019
Messages
11
Likes
17
I have been an extremely competitive CS GO and COD player for over 10 years and have been in a few league/semi-pro teams (https://letsplay.live/profile/102198/Physkzv2/ - the way I spell my username has changed a few times over the years), and over that course of time I have always nerded out about getting the best headphones for soundwhoring.

I have probably tried 50+ different cans with gaming over the years, and while some definitely stood out above others and I have listed them below, I am a big believer in the ones that will sound and work the best for you are the ones you have spent many hours training your brain to get used to. It takes time for your brain to accurately translate what you are hearing with the enemies actual placement, and when you switch headphones up you are asking your brain to retrain on the fly, when you really need to use them for many hours without swapping back to the previous ones to understand how they truly perfom. If I ever try switching up my daily drivers it always takes many hours or days of listening to retrain my brain to the new set and be able to accurately place enemies again. You might notice FPS pros always use their own personal in-ear headphones that they are used to underneath their gaming headsets provided by whatever tournament they are competing in, that should tell you something. In saying all this, I still believe some headphones are better at sound placement than others, the best Sennheisers I have heard for this are:

1. HD800S
3. HD560S
3. HD660S

The best non Sennheiser soundwhoring headphones I have heard are:

1. AKG K700 series - The 712s are my daily drivers and I also own the 702s and 7XXs, the pad differences across the models make more of a difference than anything else.
2. AudioTechnica ATH R70X
3. Beyerdynamic DT1990
 

Misguided

Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2022
Messages
55
Likes
22
I have been an extremely competitive CS GO and COD player for over 10 years and have been in a few league/semi-pro teams (https://letsplay.live/profile/102198/Physkzv2/ - the way I spell my username has changed a few times over the years), and over that course of time I have always nerded out about getting the best headphones for soundwhoring.

I have probably tried 50+ different cans with gaming over the years, and while some definitely stood out above others and I have listed them below, I am a big believer in the ones that will sound and work the best for you are the ones you have spent many hours training your brain to get used to. It takes time for your brain to accurately translate what you are hearing with the enemies actual placement, and when you switch headphones up you are asking your brain to retrain on the fly, when you really need to use them for many hours without swapping back to the previous ones to understand how they truly perfom. If I ever try switching up my daily drivers it always takes many hours or days of listening to retrain my brain to the new set and be able to accurately place enemies again. You might notice FPS pros always use their own personal in-ear headphones that they are used to underneath their gaming headsets provided by whatever tournament they are competing in, that should tell you something. In saying all this, I still believe some headphones are better at sound placement than others, the best Sennheisers I have heard for this are:

1. HD800S
3. HD560S
3. HD660S

The best non Sennheiser soundwhoring headphones I have heard are:

1. AKG K700 series - The 712s are my daily drivers and I also own the 702s and 7XXs, the pad differences across the models make more of a difference than anything else.
2. AudioTechnica ATH R70X
3. Beyerdynamic DT1990
Do the AKG K702 and 712s sound ok plugged straight into a controller (in my case xbox) or do they need a separate amp / dac?
 

markanini

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Messages
1,718
Likes
1,768
Location
Scania
Interesting how the daily driver of a competitive gamer with a record is a warm tuned set:
index.php
 

Physkx

Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2019
Messages
11
Likes
17
Do the AKG K702 and 712s sound ok plugged straight into a controller (in my case xbox) or do they need a separate amp / dac?
I would say the only headphone out of the six I mentioned that could be used without an amp is the HD560S. The AKG K700 series sound very weak without proper amplification, even though they have lower impedance than the HD560S they are not sensitive enough to be driven from a phone like the HD560S is.

Interesting how the daily driver of a competitive gamer with a record is a warm tuned set:
index.php
Yes, although I do use EQ to slightly bring up around 1K, 3.5K, and 5K and without doing this they would not even be in my top 3 for FPS gaming . The bass I leave as is - although it is slightly anemic - for competitive FPS this is preferable to me. Even with music I have always been surprised with how much I like the sound of the AKG K700 series considering how little sub bass they have and how average they measure all round.
 

bodhi

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 11, 2022
Messages
973
Likes
1,371
Interesting how the daily driver of a competitive gamer with a record is a warm tuned set:
index.php

Interesting also because if headphones would matter it would be in the highest tiers of competitive gaming.

From what I have gathered, even the top 10% of competitive casual gamers have so huge, glaring gaps in their mechanical skill, game sense, strategy and general consistency that any improvement in those skills would increase performance by orders of magnitude more than switching to a bit more revealing headphone.

But that is the case for most other hobbies, expensive equipment is most often sold to casuals. The experts, if paying from their own pocket, stick to what works and focus on things that matter.

BTW I often use K712 while gaming myself. I think it's value is that being somewhat non-immersive and flat, the important sound effects, footsteps especially, are very easy to notice. They still can't mask my lacking reflexes and other middle-aged granpa issues and do not have any effect on my rank in ladder. :)
 

Robbo99999

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
6,874
Likes
6,672
Location
UK
Interesting also because if headphones would matter it would be in the highest tiers of competitive gaming.

From what I have gathered, even the top 10% of competitive casual gamers have so huge, glaring gaps in their mechanical skill, game sense, strategy and general consistency that any improvement in those skills would increase performance by orders of magnitude more than switching to a bit more revealing headphone.
That second paragraph is just an unfounded idea of yours. I don't agree with that from my perspective, in my experience it's quite easy to notice differences in headphones when used for competetive fps gaming, both in my level of situational awareness and also how well I guage I'm playing. Of course sometimes you're playing against better players or cheaters or sometimes you're playing against people that don't know what they're doing - so game results will always vary, but I always have a strong sense of how well I'm playing and how much situational awareness a certain headphone brings me or doesn't bring me - especially if you use it for a few hours. I don't agree with your dumbing down of the importance of headphone choice in fps gaming. But of course it won't turn a rubbish unpracticed player into a seasoned polished veteran!
 

Robbo99999

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
6,874
Likes
6,672
Location
UK
Pot, meet kettle.
No, it's not the same thing, you're applying generalisation and even an unfounded percentage score to your statements: "From what I have gathered, even the top 10% of competitive casual gamers have so huge, glaring gaps in their mechanical skill, game sense, strategy and general consistency that any improvement in those skills would increase performance by orders of magnitude more than switching to a bit more revealing headphone"

You're making unfounded assumptions about other people's experiences, whilst I'm providing my own experience that goes against your generalisation - the importance of using the right headphone to maximise situational awareness in fps gaming. It's certainly not Pot Kettle. I just don't think you should dumb down the importance of tuning your sound properly in gaming, with headphone choice being a significant part of that.
 
Top Bottom