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Which Revel Speakers to Choose

Glasvegas

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Thanks to ASR I decided NOT to upgrade my CCA/Topping D50 to a more expensive streamer. Probably saved anything between £500 - £1000 right there!

Again, taking advice on this forum, I’m planning to upgrade my speakers instead.

I had considered Revel M16s. However, in the UK there a lot of good deals on other Revel models. For example:

M105 - 799 (RRP 1,599)
M106 - 999 (RRP 1,999)
F35 - 1,299 (RRP 1,499) with 6 year dealer warranty
F206 - 1,599 (RRP 3,999) !!!!

Can’t see any special deals on M16 (£999).

The obvious choice might be to go for the F206, based on the saving on RRP. However, they will be used in a small living room (14 x 12 ft), although I believe they can be placed close to a wall.

Any advice on which one to choose appreciated.

Also, would any model be a significant improvement over my Dynaudio M10s, and would they all match my Naim NAP100?
 

VintageFlanker

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However, they will be used in a small living room (14 x 12 ft), although I believe they can be placed close to a wall.
If my conversion is correct, your room is 15,5 square meters. From my perspective, I see no point for floorstandings as big as the F206 in that space. Not to mention their proximity to the back wall or your listening position.

I would go for the M106. Your Naim is definitely not a powerhouse, but provides enough power for these bookshelfs IMHO.
 
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Crane

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I concur with vintage i would get the m106 and add subs if need be، now if you ever plan on i going to bigger space than you might as well spring for the f206.

Also, I use a studio2 and m126be and tbh i cant see any of them getting stressed at even high listening volumes. Both tested as semi large rooms are pretty good so i can see the m106 being too behind the 126be.
 
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Glasvegas

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Should have mentioned, I listen at low to medium volume levels, as I live in a flat.
 

Crane

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Same i live in an apartment, i just have padding/thick carpet under my speakers. So either way is fine as long as you account for it but you wont be disappointed either way you go. Depends on your listening setup/perference.

Overall, if you decide on the m106 i dont believe you will be disappointed. As much as i love the studio2, I'm always more amazed at how the m126be perform in a desk/medium/large room setup. Granted it may lose a bit in bigger setups to them or in desk setups to proper monitors but they are not far behind.

All i can say is the versatility of a revels bookshelf is quite outstanding.
 

mil

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If you can tame your room then I would personally go for the F206 (at this price)...but you will need to treat the whole room heavily, to the point it looks like a studio. So what Crane suggests is probably the right choice, but I would still go for xN foam panels / xM bass traps and the F206s :)
 
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Glasvegas

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If you can tame your room then I would personally go for the F206 (at this price)...but you will need to treat the whole room heavily, to the point it looks like a studio. So what Crane suggests is probably the right choice, but I would still go for xN foam panels / xM bass traps and the F206s :)

If it was a dedicated “listening room” that might be the way to go, but it is the main living area. That price is tempting.
 

richard12511

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M105 measures the best of those options. M106 can play louder and deeper than the M105, and only sacrifices a little directivity mismatch around the crossover. F206 goes even lower and louder, though suffers even more smoothness issues. Go with which advantage you need more.
 
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richard12511

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FWIW this dude over in norway had the m16, m106, hdi 1600 and jbl classic L82 at home at the same time and says he preferred the m16.
sure its not proof of anything but interesting non the less.
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&u=https://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/threads/stativhøyttaler-battle.99410/page-2#post-3121328

Interesting! I wonder if he he preferred the 100Hz bass boost of the M16? Without subs, I could see why one might prefer that. Plus, it is cheaper, which is always nice :).
 

echopraxia

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M105 measures the best of those options. M106 can play louder and deeper than the M105, and only sacrifices a little directivity mismatch around the crossover.F206 goes even lower and louder, though suffers even more smoothness issues. Go with which advantage you need more.
To add to this: I’ve owned the F206 and, while I did really like it, it’s treble sounded more rough to me than my Ascend RAAL Towers. It appears the M105 and M106 are actually much better than the F206, from the measurements. The F208 also seems much better, but I understand if it may be too expensive.
 
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Glasvegas

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To add to this: I’ve owned the F206 and, while I did really like it, it’s treble sounded more rough to me than my Ascend RAAL Towers. It appears the M105 and M106 are actually much better than the F206, from the measurements. The F208 also seems much better, but I understand if it may be too expensive.

Size, as much as price, is the problem. Although the same dealer was selling the F208s for £2,999 (RRP 5,399). As you can imagine he’s sold out.

Looks as though it‘s down to the M105 or M106.
 

echopraxia

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Please don't buy towers in a room of that size. That's the mistake I made and I regretted the (large) purchase ever since.
There is nothing inherently wrong with towers in a small room. What do you regret about towers, and why?
 

Sparky

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There is nothing inherently wrong with towers in a small room. What do you regret about towers, and why?
Agree, nothing wrong with towers in a small room at all, I just regret buying the ones I have due to the bass extension which excites at room mode at 40hz that even EQ and room correction software has trouble dealing with. :(
 

echopraxia

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Agree, nothing wrong with towers in a small room at all, I just regret buying the ones I have due to the bass extension which excites at room mode at 40hz that even EQ and room correction software has trouble dealing with. :(
You can always EQ towers to have bass extension more similar to bookshelves, if you really need to — in which case the only thing lost from towers is the additional capability (and associated cost) that you’re not using.

Your case sounds quite rare though. You may find a lot of benefit from experimenting with speaker position along with EQ.

For example, my Genelec 8351B’s (more bass extension than most towers) are in a much smaller room than the dimensions mentioned above, and the end result I’ve achieved sounds extremely good (probably the best sound I’ve ever heard), despite some of the worst room acoustics possible.

If you haven’t tried it, I would highly recommend you experiment with speaker position and EQ together — rather than finding a position that sounds good without EQ and then EQ’ing after. For example, in a small room positioning the speakers very near the wall will boost bass a lot for some frequencies, and sound quite bloated without EQ. But I find putting the speakers as close to the wall as possible actually yields by far the best results as long as you do correctly flatten the bloated and peaky bass with precise EQ. (This is less likely to lead to bass nulls this way.) Note: A N-band equalizer doesn’t not count, and is not sufficient.

As a result I would definitely not blame towers for bad results in a small room. You could say they’re overkill, but that’s relative (to your SPL needs), and some people (like myself) prefer the tower form factor aesthetically. It is true though that often you’ll get better results for a fixed budget in a small room from bookshelf speakers plus multiple subs. But I actually have always found the best results when the main speakers have decent bass capabilities of their own, plus a sub in a different position optimized to fill in what’s missing.

The reality is natural bass response (prior to EQ and positioning experiments) pretty much always sounds wrong no matter the room size... so no matter what, you’ll have to tune speaker positioning and EQ carefully. Maybe larger rooms sound better without EQ, but in my limited experience I actually find smaller rooms with tighter listening position zones easier to tune for.
 
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Soundstage

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If you haven’t tried it, I would highly recommend you experiment with speaker position and EQ together — rather than finding a position that sounds good without EQ and then EQ’ing after. For example, in a small room positioning the speakers very near the wall will boost bass a lot for some frequencies, and sound quite bloated without EQ. But I find putting the speakers as close to the wall as possible actually yields by far the best results as long as you do correctly flatten the bloated and peaky bass with precise EQ. (This is less likely to lead to bass nulls this way.) Note: A N-band equalizer doesn’t not count, and is not sufficient.
Putting the speaker next to the wall and flatting out the peaks seems interesting because it could also improve the THD of the speaker.
But some "experts" favor the soundstage over anything else:
What's is your take on that?
 
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Glasvegas

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You can always EQ towers to have bass extension more similar to bookshelves, if you really need to — in which case the only thing lost from towers is the additional capability (and associated cost) that you’re not using.

Your case sounds quite rare though. You may find a lot of benefit from experimenting with speaker position along with EQ.

For example, my Genelec 8351B’s (more bass extension than most towers) are in a much smaller room than the dimensions mentioned above, and the end result I’ve achieved sounds extremely good (probably the best sound I’ve ever heard), despite some of the worst room acoustics possible.

If you haven’t tried it, I would highly recommend you experiment with speaker position and EQ together — rather than finding a position that sounds good without EQ and then EQ’ing after. For example, in a small room positioning the speakers very near the wall will boost bass a lot for some frequencies, and sound quite bloated without EQ. But I find putting the speakers as close to the wall as possible actually yields by far the best results as long as you do correctly flatten the bloated and peaky bass with precise EQ. (This is less likely to lead to bass nulls this way.) Note: A N-band equalizer doesn’t not count, and is not sufficient.

As a result I would definitely not blame towers for bad results in a small room. You could say they’re overkill, but that’s relative (to your SPL needs), and some people (like myself) prefer the tower form factor aesthetically. It is true though that often you’ll get better results for a fixed budget in a small room from bookshelf speakers plus multiple subs. But I actually have always found the best results when the main speakers have decent bass capabilities of their own, plus a sub in a different position optimized to fill in what’s missing.

The reality is natural bass response (prior to EQ and positioning experiments) pretty much always sounds wrong no matter the room size... so no matter what, you’ll have to tune speaker positioning and EQ carefully. Maybe larger rooms sound better without EQ, but in my limited experience I actually find smaller rooms with tighter listening position zones easier to tune for.

Had decided on the M105 or M106 until I saw this discussion. However, I should point out two things:

A ”small room” in the US may not be the same as in the UK. Remember, it’s only 14 x 12 ft. That’s probably a cupboard in the US.

I don’t have access to EQ. Although I would like to in the future, if I could find a good DAC with EQ capability. Don’t like to go off topic, but any suggestions appreciated.

So, does this change your advice for my particular use case e.g. forget the F206 without EQ.
 

echopraxia

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Had decided on the M105 or M106 until I saw this discussion. However, I should point out two things:

A ”small room” in the US may not be the same as in the UK. Remember, it’s only 14 x 12 ft. That’s probably a cupboard in the US.

I don’t have access to EQ. Although I would like to in the future, if I could find a good DAC with EQ capability. Don’t like to go off topic, but any suggestions appreciated.

So, does this change your advice for my particular use case e.g. forget the F206 without EQ.
Honestly the only benefit to buying bookshelf speakers is that given a finite budget, you can generally buy a bookshelf speaker one tier higher in quality vs a tower of the same price.

For example, rather than a pair of Performa3 F206 towers, one could buy a pair of PerformaBe M126Be bookshelves for about the same price. A decision to go with a bookshelf over a tower for cost optimization reasons is a great strategy.

Other than cost optimization, there are little to no inherent advantages to bookshelves. Space savings is not usually an advantage to a bookshelf speaker, because they will generally only sound good when stand-mounted — and most stands of similar solidity to towers actually consume more floor space than towers, not less! Sure the stand itself consumes less air volume, but I have yet to see anyone ever make use of the free space around a stand’s pole above the floor and below the speaker (which is literally the only room space savings you get).

Also, even the cost savings point isn’t aways true — for example, if a tower satisfies your bass needs to the point where you don’t need a subwoofer, it might actually end up costing you more to buy { bookshelf speakers, stands, subwoofer } than simply buying a pair of towers! And in your case of a small room, it’s quite likely that (with EQ) a good pair of towers will give you all the bass you need for music without a subwoofer, even at high playback levels. In contrast, it is unlikely that a bookshelf will be capable of this without the woofer bottoming out. For this reason, yes, I love towers even in small rooms.

However... I do not recommend the Revel F206. In my experience, the treble of the F206 is lacking vs many other speakers. Everything else is great, but the treble did not satisfy me. The M105/M106/F208 measure much better, and I’d expect they will have much better treble. (So unfortunately, it’s not always safe to assume all speakers within a lineup have the same sound quality overall.)

And lastly, not to confuse your purchasing decision any further, but... as I type this I’m listening to Focal Aria 926 tower that just arrived, as they are on sale on Amazon.com (and a few other locations) for around $2.3k/pair (almost half the MSRP of a Revel F206). I find them much superior to the Revel F206 (from memory), particularly in treble. But their bass seems every bit as good too; they’re sufficient even without a subwoofer for most music in the 14x17” room they’re in!

These are the tower versions of the Focal Aria 906 reviewed here on ASR. I suspected I would like them due to the wide dispersion pattern, and I am not disappointed. That said, take this with a grain of salt until I’ve had them longer and my ears get over the initial excitement of new speakers :)
 
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