Which of these amps would sound best

[DanielT]

to DanielT: price range narrowing option on fb is set to R2500 max (SA rand is weak) but lots of amps coming up in this range.

So around 140 USD. It shouldn't be a problem to get a used WORKING amp for that price.

I've had one like this 320bee (the receiver version). Would probably work great for you. Should be able to get one for around $140.
In Sweden anyway. Don't know how common they are in South Africa? In Sweden, the 320bee model was sold in large numbers. Around twenty years old amp, so a 320 bee should be in good (not worn out) condition. Measures very well:

'Review and Measurements of NAD C 320BEE PWR Amplifier'

Aug 16, 2019

This is a review and detailed measurements of the NAD C 320BEE power (speaker) amplifier. It is on kind loan. The C 320BEE is a vintage product, dating back to 2003 I think. The BEE designation is apparently a reference to Bjorn Erik Edvardsen who was one of their designers. Can't tell if he designed this version or this is based on work he did years earlier. Either way, I am told it is a "classic." I don't keep up with such things but I am sure some of you will set me straight if that is, or isn't so.

From what I can tell the original cost was US $399. So quite a budget piece...

• amirm
• Replies: 131
• Forum: Stereo and Multichannel Amplifier Reviews

• 

Yamaha AX-396 is a model that is as old as 320bee.It's also a good amp. I think it is possible to get an AX-396 for a little less money than the 320bee:

'Review and Measurements of vintage Yamaha AX-396 integrated amplifier'

Dec 16, 2019

Review and Measurements of vintage Yamaha AX-396 integrated amplifier

This review shows measurements of Yamaha AX-396 integrated amplifier, ser. no. Y399871TV, made in Malaysia.

I bought this amplifier in the year 2002 and have been using it shortly. Then it was sleeping in my stock and 5 years ago I gave it to my son, who has been using it till nowadays.

Description

AX-396 is a 2-channel, integrated amplifier. It has 5 linear inputs (150mV/47k) and 1 phono RIAA input (2.5mV/47k). It has 2 link level outputs (150mV/1.6k) (tape and MD). It has headphone output. It has 2...

• pma
• amplifier complexload measurement review yamaha
• Replies: 114
• Forum: Amplifiers, Phono preamp, and Analog Audio Review

• 

Note, check if they have the features you want.

Edit:
But with that said, both the Denon PMA-450 and the Marantz PM-53, if they are fully functional, are equally good choices.

 

[voodooless]

ok i couldn't resist, this is what it said: (but i dont want to linger on this perhaps we should create a seperate AI topic...)

So it said:

That’s the heart of the long-running “all amps sound the same” vs. “amps have different characters” debate — and you’re right, on paper, many modern amps do measure so cleanly that they’re well past the limits of human hearing when run within their rated specs.


The reason so many differences are still claimed (and sometimes real) comes down to a few things:

---

1. Specs don’t tell the whole story​

• Bench tests usually measure steady-state sine waves into resistive loads.
• Real music is dynamic, with fast transients, complex impedance curves, and speakers that aren’t resistors.
• Two amps with identical THD+N and SNR specs at 1 kHz, 1 W, can behave differently with a tough speaker load at high volume.

---

2. Audible differences often come from operating near limits​

• Within safe parameters into easy loads, you won’t hear much difference.
• Push the amp toward its limits (low impedance, high SPL peaks, big dynamic swings), and differences in power supply headroom, thermal management, and current delivery show up — sometimes as clipping character, sometimes as compression before clipping.

---

3. Differences in “voicing” and topology​

• Even with inaudible distortion, frequency response shaping or feedback design can subtly shift tonal balance.
• Tube vs. solid-state vs. Class D, or even different implementations within the same class, can change harmonic profile (especially in overload or with reactive loads).

---

4. Psychoacoustics and expectation bias​

• This is a big one — our brains are incredibly good at convincing us we hear what we expect to hear, especially if we know what we’re listening to.
• Sighted listening tests have repeatedly shown that perceived differences shrink or disappear under blind testing, unless the amps are pushed outside safe operating parameters.

---

5. Marketing and “feature storytelling”​

• Manufacturers know “sounds the same as others” isn’t sexy, so they emphasize unique circuits, materials, or “house sound” even if the measurable differences are negligible in normal use.
• The claims can be exaggerated far beyond the actual audible reality.

---

Bottom line:
If two amps measure flat, have low distortion/noise well below audible levels, and are used within their capabilities with the same load, the audible differences will be vanishingly small. The moment you change load difficulty, drive level, or topology behavior under stress, those differences can become audible — and that’s where the “they sound different” crowd draws their real-world experiences from.

It should have led with points #4 and #5... The rest is audiophile propaganda.

 

[kevinsonic]

Amps with low power driven into clipping, that is, if they are pushed hard, can sound bad. Really bad. Think of an old car stereo at high volume. It can scream, distort and hurt your ears. It could be a combo of amp clipping and speaker distortion that is the cause but most likely it is the amp because an amp driven hard into clipping that makes it sound too damn bad.

....or good but then it is about consciously creating a sound, that is, amp clipping that gives the sound of distorting electric guitars. But that is a completely different matter.

Cutting up, breaking the speaker cone is not something you do on your Hifi speakers. However, doing it on your guitar amp speakers and recording that sound. Well, it can even lead to the modern rock sound:

By the way. It's possible that that AU-D5 with parts and repairs could cost as much or more than, for example, this one:

If you want something nice to look at. Plug in that Douk VU3 VU meter with your amp:

'Douk VU3 VU Meter Review (Updated Version)'

May 6, 2023

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Updated Douk Audio (Little Bear) VU3 VU meter and amplifier/speaker selector. It was kindly drop shipped to me by a member and costs US $139.

Both the case and the VU meters are top class. The metal box is heavy as to help keep it in place and the glass in front of the VU meters ultra clear. Picture above is a bit washed out relative to the smooth/vintage shading of the yellow color. The peak LED is an added bonus. Sensitivity control is smooth and nice to operate. The two selector switches activate what sounds like hefty...

• amirm
• Replies: 273
• Forum: Amplifiers, Phono preamp, and Analog Audio Review

• 

aaa....an old silver kenwood amp i had loooooooong ago , had this built in, it was quite nice to have, but the amp cut out so much until it finally died, think there was something else wrong with it but it sounded nice.

 

[DSJR]

I want to believe this, that would mean i can buy any of these amps mentioned and i would be happy with the sound any of them produces if they all work.( no age related component issues)

This whole 'amplifier-sound' thing is mainly about amps with a high output impedance equalising the response of a speaker with roller-coaster impedance curves (most passive models have this characteristic).

I used to sell the PMA450 and liked it very much (it wasn't expensive either back then - £250 as against £5 - 700 for immediate more versatile competition at the time). I recall there was plenty of power on tap - the music we used was 90% contemporary by the way, so it should fit your bill well if a cheap older amp is required and the brand does seem to last well in general over the years (the PMA 450 was mid to late 90s I recall in the UK market).

The Yamaha 396/596 looks to have a very similar base chassis/circuit to the current models, the main difference I think, being the front panels and labelling and the input cards with maybe the volume control arrangement. They can be very cheap as still 'sleepers' in the wider market.

 

[kevinsonic]

It should have led with points #4 and #5... The rest is audiophile propaganda.

it it brainwashes those who want to get to the truth..

So around 140 USD. It shouldn't be a problem to get a used WORKING amp for that price.

I've had one like this 320bee (the receiver version). Would probably work great for you. Should be able to get one for around $140.
In Sweden anyway. Don't know how common they are in South Africa? In Sweden, the 320bee model was sold in large numbers. Around twenty years old amp, so a 320 bee should be in good (not worn out) condition. Measures very well:

'Review and Measurements of NAD C 320BEE PWR Amplifier'

Aug 16, 2019

This is a review and detailed measurements of the NAD C 320BEE power (speaker) amplifier. It is on kind loan. The C 320BEE is a vintage product, dating back to 2003 I think. The BEE designation is apparently a reference to Bjorn Erik Edvardsen who was one of their designers. Can't tell if he designed this version or this is based on work he did years earlier. Either way, I am told it is a "classic." I don't keep up with such things but I am sure some of you will set me straight if that is, or isn't so.

From what I can tell the original cost was US $399. So quite a budget piece...

• amirm
• Replies: 131
• Forum: Stereo and Multichannel Amplifier Reviews

• 

Yamaha AX-396 is a model that is as old as 320bee.It's also a good amp. I think it is possible to get an AX-396 for a little less money than the 320bee:

'Review and Measurements of vintage Yamaha AX-396 integrated amplifier'

Dec 16, 2019

Review and Measurements of vintage Yamaha AX-396 integrated amplifier

This review shows measurements of Yamaha AX-396 integrated amplifier, ser. no. Y399871TV, made in Malaysia.

I bought this amplifier in the year 2002 and have been using it shortly. Then it was sleeping in my stock and 5 years ago I gave it to my son, who has been using it till nowadays.

Description

AX-396 is a 2-channel, integrated amplifier. It has 5 linear inputs (150mV/47k) and 1 phono RIAA input (2.5mV/47k). It has 2 link level outputs (150mV/1.6k) (tape and MD). It has headphone output. It has 2...

• pma
• amplifier complexload measurement review yamaha
• Replies: 114
• Forum: Amplifiers, Phono preamp, and Analog Audio Review

• 

Note, check if they have the features you want.

Edit:
But with that said, both the Denon PMA-450 and the Marantz PM-53, if they are fully functional, are equally good choices.

thanks its on my list now

 

[kevinsonic]

This whole 'amplifier-sound' thing is mainly about amps with a high output impedance equalising the response of a speaker with roller-coaster impedance curves (most passive models have this characteristic).

I used to sell the PMA450 and liked it very much (it wasn't expensive either back then - £250 as against £5 - 700 for immediate more versatile competition at the time). I recall there was plenty of power on tap - the music we used was 90% contemporary by the way, so it should fit your bill well if a cheap older amp is required and the brand does seem to last well in general over the years (the PMA 450 was mid to late 90s I recall in the UK market).

The Yamaha 396/596 looks to have a very similar base chassis/circuit to the current models, the main difference I think, being the front panels and labelling and the input cards with maybe the volume control arrangement. They can be very cheap as still 'sleepers' in the wider market.

thanks for this.... i am leaning more towards avrs now... but the vintage amp is a very close consideration still.

 

[kevinsonic]

this is what the PMA 450 looks like on the inside the actual one i am/was/ maybe still considering.
There is also a 520 AE same price (also attached)

 

[kevinsonic]

These are all the amps in my current save list

 

[Keith_W]

thanks for this.... i am leaning more towards avrs now... but the vintage amp is a very close consideration still.

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I hate AVR's. That's a lot of complexity to build into one machine, which wouldn't be a problem if things didn't go obsolete and they weren't so unreliable. For HT there isn't much of a choice, either AVR or AV preamp (very $$$!) but for 2ch audio I would go separates every time. Something like a Wiim + power amp. Wiims are cheap and disposable, and power amps are mostly reliable and never go obsolete.

 

[AdrianusG]

View attachment 469266

Plus it can double as your own private particle accelerator or fusion reactor by the looks of it

 

[DanielT]

These are all the amps in my current save list

Aha, within your budget, max $140 that is?

I see a lot of AVRs.

Of the ones I saw. If I were to choose one of those, a two-channel amplifier, it's easy: Yamaha A-S500
If it's in full working order. IF that's the case and the seller is selling it for $140, buy it right away. Used hifi at good prices, ..poof, the stuff is sold.
You have to be quick with the buy button.

A-S500 - Overview - HiFi Components - Products - Home Audio - Audio - Yamaha - Other European Countries & Regions

Clear sound in the A-S2000 tradition.

europe.yamaha.com

 

[krabapple]

Calling all non classical music entheusiasts to give me an opinion please: (nothing against classical music there are plenty that i like but my main genres is as follows)

the 3 amplifiers i can choose from below which will be best ?
i'm not sure if i can trust chatgpt:

• Best for Trance: Sansui AU-D5 for its rich, warm sound.
• Best for Metal: Denon PMA-450 due to its dynamic range and clarity.
• Best All-Rounder: Marantz PM-53, which provides a good balance for both genres.

No.

There are no 'music amps' versus other kinds of consumer audio amps, and they also don't segregate by music genre. Adjust your thinking.

Thanks to all, and every single reply makes 100% sense.
If i could just be given an opinion which of the three (now 4) would be best.

Get the cheapest one that has the features you need. It ain't rocket science. Don't buy a vintage amp unless you are willing to pay for repairs, or you know it's been competently refurbished.

 

[Robin L]

My amp is a Yamaha RX-V461 AVR. Found it at an Amvets thrift store for $50. One site claims it came out in the 1990s, another claims 2007. No matter, it came out before HDMI. I'm only using the front two channels and the line level sub output. I've owned many different amplifiers starting in 1973. I've had the best results with this amplifier. 100 watts a side when using just the two front channels. It's the kind of amp that is dismissed as garbage by "audiophiles" and fans of "vintage" amps. Mine has been working without a glitch since about 2015. Never gets too hot. I bypass all the features, just use it as a power amp with volume levels controlled by a Topping L30 headphone amp/preamp. So we're looking at something like 20-30 years of operation. I listen to a wide variety of musical genres including those genres that are the hardest to reproduce—orchestral music primarily. I've got no desire to get another amplifier.

Edit: Calling all non classical music entheusiasts to give me an opinion please: (nothing against classical music there are plenty that i like but my main genres is as follows)

If an amp can handle Mahler's "Resurrection" Symphony, it can handle anything.

 

[kevinsonic]

( i will reply to those that responded soon thanks) just had a quick opprtunity on a NAD.

Recently i've been looking at a few nads, lost an opportunity on a T750 but have another on a304, i like that NAD under spec their ratings when in actuality they can take more.. Regardless
I have a guy with a nad 304, he says the amp works 100% when you input your device into the pre out and main in slots (he taken out those u wires) See attached of the rear of a nad 304.

The nad 304 would be perfect for my 4 ohm speakers as it has high output. and it has built in soft clipping should you reach over power levels

 

[kevinsonic]

this is the very one inside

 

[DanielT]

( i will reply to those that responded soon thanks) just had a quick opprtunity on a NAD.

Recently i've been looking at a few nads, lost an opportunity on a T750 but have another on a304, i like that NAD under spec their ratings when in actuality they can take more.. Regardless
I have a guy with a nad 304, he says the amp works 100% when you input your device into the pre out and main in slots (he taken out those u wires) See attached of the rear of a nad 304.

The nad 304 would be perfect for my 4 ohm speakers as it has high output. and it has built in soft clipping should you reach over power levels

If it works as it should, if you think 35 watts is enough, then sure, buy it at a reasonable price. The price should reflect that it is thirty years old. That is, it won't hurt your wallet that much if it breaks down in the future. Thirty years is still thirty years after all. That said, it can work flawlessly for many years to come.

One thing you can do is google, ask the questions: Is the NAD 304 durable? NAD 304 common faults, NAD 304 service, repair.
Just to see if it is a model that seems to be reliable or if it, for some reason, always breaks down, needs to replace X things after a number of decades.
Kind of like checking an older used car model. Is it durable, common faults and so on.

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/nad/304.shtml

What source do you have? Streaming music? CD player? Turntable?

Why don't you check out some new small class D amp? Amir has tested quite a few. You can get them within your budget. This one for example, about the same power (with a 32 V, 5 A power supply* that fits it well) as the NAD 304. If you only need one input then that is. You buy it new so you get a warranty. Nice features on the Douk A5 with that sensible highpass filter.
(*Power supply is the power you put into the amplifier, what the amplifier can then produce in power / watts to the speakers is another matter. It will always take more energy in than you get out. Different amplifier classes do this transformation differently efficiently.)

In fact, you get it for well under your $140 budget. Check out what it costs with shipping to South Africa here:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005008297683972.html

You can watch a video Amir made about that Douk amp here:
The shortest summary of the video: It's a good amp.

 

[witwald]

The NAD 304 is rated at 35W continuous output power into 8Ω. That's not very much power, although it might be adequate for many listening situations.

 

[DSJR]

The NAD 304 is rated at 35W continuous output power into 8Ω. That's not very much power, although it might be adequate for many listening situations.

Wasn't the selling point over the decades the 'Power Envelope' or whatever they called it, where the short-term peak power was significantly more than the continuous rating? In a smallish room, neighbours around and modern 4 - 6 ohm speakers, 35W continuous at 8 ohms might *just* be enough for many...

Mind you, I remember when the first 3020/3120 generation was replaced by a slimline 3020e model, which in direct comparison sounded absolutely gutless, despite a generally good performance and a recommendation in HiFi Choice (amp issue 50 and the 3120 in previous 39 and 44 issues, all on 'worldradiohistory' if you want to look the tests up). The later 304 generation did seem to return to more generous power supplies I remember, even if the styling was still the plastic grey colour.

 

[witwald]

The NAD 304 has a mass of 6.4kg. It has 2x 10,000µF 50V electrolytic capacitors, as well as 2x 10,000µF 25V electrolytic capacitors, so the power supply seems to be reasonably substantial.

 

[DanielT]

Regarding Kevins speakers. It is difficult to obtain information about them but my guess is, with dual eight-inch woofers, that those speakers have a sensitivity of 89dB. Maybe 90dB. Kevins speakers:


IF Kevin only needs one input plus he has a subwoofer: ..
speakers of 4 ohm 80 watt peak will be driven plus a 120w peak sub... then the Douk Audio A5 amp with 59 watts into 4 Ohm paired with 89dB (my guess) sensitivity
4 Ohm speakers is an excellent choice.

@kevinsonic what kind of subwoofer do you have? Manufacturer? Model?